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    \[ALPHA\] FTC dice / coinflip game

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    • P
      psvexploit last edited by

      any amount to test ? I have 0 ftc at the moment . my adress is below.I will play as soonas possible

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      • P
        psvexploit last edited by

        I have another question , why the odds are 1.85and not 2 ? I din’t know how this works . 0-49 is 50/100 ,1/2 winning odds , am I wright ?

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        • K
          Kevlar Spammer last edited by

          [quote name=“psvexploit” post=“45635” timestamp=“1387317921”]
          I have another question , why the odds are 1.85and not 2 ? I din’t know how this works . 0-49 is 50/100 ,1/2 winning odds , am I wright ?
          [/quote]

          That’s called the house margin, and it’s to ensure site profitability over the long term.

          If the odds were 2, the operator would expect to make no money over the long term. With 1.85, while you’ll still roll a winning bet 50% of the time, you’ll only ever get back 85% of your winnings.

          There’s other sites with much lower house odds (98% is very popular), as well as one I’ve heard of that has no house margin. These sites also have much higher limits, and most do the betting off-chain as to not create lots of dust outputs.

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          • S
            slavco Regular Member last edited by

            I’ll send you 1 FTC to try it and you can play min 0.1 and max 0.5. Thx

            you have it 1 FTC at 6uALi6ydo1faXPdju6FAE59BHdpwounPkM

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            • U
              UKMark last edited by

              [quote name=“Kevlar” post=“45248” timestamp=“1387237854”]
              [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg45243#msg45243 date=1387236020]
              They reveal server seed not secret. As i understand secret is revealed after the play
              [/quote]

              They reveal the hash of the server secret. Afterwords, they reveal the secret. I can take the secret, and hash it myself, and compare it to the hash they showed.
              [/quote]

              Exactly what ftcgames does, TXID of the placed bet + the secret - whether the secret shows immediately after or 24 hours or a week or even a year later is irrelevant because there isn’t a cat in hells chance of reproducing [i]exactly[/i] the same hashes for [i]every[/i] given hashed result using a different secret and the same given formula.

              …And we also offer less than 2% house edge. :)

              Now on a similar note I have a question for Kevlar that has bugged me for ages even though I have implemented this system myself because other sites do this -
              But, is the reason to show the secret after the bet because the TXID could be altered by the punter to generate the result they required if it was shown before? < Is this really possible? And if so how could it be pulled off? Or is it because no-one really knows if it’s possible? :)

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              • K
                Kevlar Spammer last edited by

                [quote name=“UKMark” post=“45949” timestamp=“1387401190”]
                [quote author=Kevlar link=topic=5931.msg45248#msg45248 date=1387237854]
                [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg45243#msg45243 date=1387236020]
                They reveal server seed not secret. As i understand secret is revealed after the play
                [/quote]

                They reveal the hash of the server secret. Afterwords, they reveal the secret. I can take the secret, and hash it myself, and compare it to the hash they showed.
                [/quote]

                Exactly what ftcgames does, TXID of the placed bet + the secret - whether the secret shows immediately after or 24 hours or a week or even a year later is irrelevant because there isn’t a cat in hells chance of reproducing [i]exactly[/i] the same hashes for [i]every[/i] given hashed result using a different secret and the same given formula.

                …And we also offer less than 2% house edge. :)

                Now on a similar note I have a question for Kevlar that has bugged me for ages even though I have implemented this system myself because other sites do this -
                But, is the reason to show the secret after the bet because the TXID could be altered by the punter to generate the result they required if it was shown before? < Is this really possible? And if so how could it be pulled off? Or is it because no-one really knows if it’s possible? :)
                [/quote]

                Yes, it’s entirely possible. Here’s how I would do it.

                If I knew the secret ahead of time, I’d generate a transaction that I wanted to win. I’d then sha256(sha256(tx)) to get it’s ID. If it was a losing ID, I’d add another output spend to an address I owned for 1 satoshi to the tx, and get the new ID. If this ID lost, i’d increment the amount to 2 satoshi’s, check the id, increment to 3 satoshis, check the id… and keep repeating that until I got a winning transaction. I would then broadcast that transaction to the network.

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                • U
                  UKMark last edited by

                  [quote name=“Kevlar” post=“45954” timestamp=“1387401548”]
                  [quote author=UKMark link=topic=5931.msg45949#msg45949 date=1387401190]
                  [quote author=Kevlar link=topic=5931.msg45248#msg45248 date=1387237854]
                  [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg45243#msg45243 date=1387236020]
                  They reveal server seed not secret. As i understand secret is revealed after the play
                  [/quote]

                  They reveal the hash of the server secret. Afterwords, they reveal the secret. I can take the secret, and hash it myself, and compare it to the hash they showed.
                  [/quote]

                  Exactly what ftcgames does, TXID of the placed bet + the secret - whether the secret shows immediately after or 24 hours or a week or even a year later is irrelevant because there isn’t a cat in hells chance of reproducing [i]exactly[/i] the same hashes for [i]every[/i] given hashed result using a different secret and the same given formula.

                  …And we also offer less than 2% house edge. :)

                  Now on a similar note I have a question for Kevlar that has bugged me for ages even though I have implemented this system myself because other sites do this -
                  But, is the reason to show the secret after the bet because the TXID could be altered by the punter to generate the result they required if it was shown before? < Is this really possible? And if so how could it be pulled off? Or is it because no-one really knows if it’s possible? :)
                  [/quote]

                  Yes, it’s entirely possible. Here’s how I would do it.

                  If I knew the secret ahead of time, I’d generate a transaction that I wanted to win. I’d then sha256(sha256(tx)) to get it’s ID. If it was a losing ID, I’d add another output spend to an address I owned for 1 satoshi to the tx, and get the new ID. If this ID lost, i’d increment the amount to 2 satoshi’s, check the id, increment to 3 satoshis, check the id… and keep repeating that until I got a winning transaction. I would then broadcast that transaction to the network.
                  [/quote]

                  Brilliant thanks for that. 8)

                  Hmmm now to find those sporadic sites that show before you play or worse still just sha256 the txid :o, if they haven’t gone bust by now that is. :D

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                  • S
                    slavco Regular Member last edited by

                    Yup on small amount of bets I can easy find the secret ( with given formula ) that will satisfy the games outcomes e.g. prove that system is fair. For x number of bets probability for me to generate secret key that will prove that game is fair is 0.5^x. For example if we have 10 bets and I want to generate secret that will satisfy the outcomes probability for me to find that secret is 0.000976562 ;)

                    The only fair situation is the following: to reveal before the bet hash of the secret and after the bet to reveal the secret.

                    Do you want to make an experiment:

                    • I’ll reveal the formula
                    • I’ll create special address for you
                    • You place 5 bets x 10 FTC ( you will loose them all )
                    • I’ll give you secret that will satisfy the formula and the outcome

                    What do you think? :)

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • P
                      psvexploit last edited by

                      thx for 1 ftc , I have played 2 dayys ago , i sent 0.1 on the head , and received back shortly after a small amount like 0.001 ftc , after that I sen another 0.2 to the head adress and again I received 0.001 and I sent again 0.1 to the head adress and another 0.001 was received . That means I lost all the bets ? is this what the system should work ?

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                      • S
                        slavco Regular Member last edited by

                        [quote name=“slavco” post=“43762” timestamp=“1386935546”]
                        6headp1fo8AmDoFvuJndGT3b4VTEiwVU7E ( number between 50-99 ) odd 1.85 ([url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6headp1fo8AmDoFvuJndGT3b4VTEiwVU7E]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6headp1fo8AmDoFvuJndGT3b4VTEiwVU7E[/url])

                        6taiLoiPTGPuQXFRLPyreYTaQyyTBQbxbM ( number between 0-49 ) odd 1.85 ([url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6taiLoiPTGPuQXFRLPyreYTaQyyTBQbxbM]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6taiLoiPTGPuQXFRLPyreYTaQyyTBQbxbM[/url])

                        Min bet: 0.1
                        Max bet 0.5
                        ( Lower or bigger amounts will be captured by the addresses and not included in the game )

                        Fair play ( There will be fairness calculator script ) :

                        • Your transaction id
                        • Game key
                        • number = last 4 bytes of md5(txid+key) to integer module 100

                        * Play with official client not via shared wallet!

                        * Bonus: First 3 players who hit 0 ( you can calculate your number when i publish the Game key ) no matter if you play head or tail will be revarded 5 FTC each if they find their winnings.

                        * First 10 players that don’t have FTC to test just drop me a note and I’ll send you amount for testing

                        * Will be online until 19:00 ( CET/GMT+1 ) *Scripts are up and running until enough transactions are performed*

                        * If problems appear please use this tread to curse and look for the justice

                        * Test stage and players could have their winnings

                        Let’s play!
                        [/quote]

                        Bad luck :)

                        It’s 50% probability… try real coin flip also you can always see the transactions in the blockchain via the links in the first post ;)
                        To get 3 heads in the row probability is 0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.125 and yes it’s quite big probability.

                        Plus you have already 1 FTC so if you try playing with it def. you will got a win ;)

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                        • K
                          Kevlar Spammer last edited by

                          [quote name=“slavco” post=“46324” timestamp=“1387493536”]
                          [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg43762#msg43762 date=1386935546]
                          6headp1fo8AmDoFvuJndGT3b4VTEiwVU7E ( number between 50-99 ) odd 1.85 ([url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6headp1fo8AmDoFvuJndGT3b4VTEiwVU7E]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6headp1fo8AmDoFvuJndGT3b4VTEiwVU7E[/url])

                          6taiLoiPTGPuQXFRLPyreYTaQyyTBQbxbM ( number between 0-49 ) odd 1.85 ([url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6taiLoiPTGPuQXFRLPyreYTaQyyTBQbxbM]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6taiLoiPTGPuQXFRLPyreYTaQyyTBQbxbM[/url])

                          Min bet: 0.1
                          Max bet 0.5
                          ( Lower or bigger amounts will be captured by the addresses and not included in the game )

                          Fair play ( There will be fairness calculator script ) :

                          • Your transaction id
                          • Game key
                          • number = last 4 bytes of md5(txid+key) to integer module 100

                          * Play with official client not via shared wallet!

                          * Bonus: First 3 players who hit 0 ( you can calculate your number when i publish the Game key ) no matter if you play head or tail will be revarded 5 FTC each if they find their winnings.

                          * First 10 players that don’t have FTC to test just drop me a note and I’ll send you amount for testing

                          * Will be online until 19:00 ( CET/GMT+1 ) *Scripts are up and running until enough transactions are performed*

                          * If problems appear please use this tread to curse and look for the justice

                          * Test stage and players could have their winnings

                          Let’s play!
                          [/quote]

                          Bad luck :)

                          It’s 50% probability… try real coin flip also you can always see the transactions in the blockchain via the links in the first post ;)
                          To get 3 heads in the row probability is 0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.125 and yes it’s quite big probability.

                          Plus you have already 1 FTC so if you try playing with it def. you will got a win ;)
                          [/quote]

                          Let’s put that in perspective.

                          The expected number of rolls without consecutive losses = 1 in 2^n, where n is the number of losses in a row. That means that if you’re rolling 8 times, the expected number of losses in a row is 3. If you roll 16 times, you could expect to see 4 losses in a row, and at 32 rolls, you could expect to see 5 losses in a row somewhere in that sequence.

                          That means that if 8 people repeated this experiment, one of them, on average, will lose all 3 rolls.

                          In short, this is completely expected. But it’s also a great example of why provable fairness is important.

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                          • U
                            UKMark last edited by

                            [quote name=“slavco” post=“46025” timestamp=“1387416717”]
                            Yup on small amount of bets I can easy find the secret ( with given formula ) that will satisfy the games outcomes e.g. prove that system is fair. For x number of bets probability for me to generate secret key that will prove that game is fair is 0.5^x. For example if we have 10 bets and I want to generate secret that will satisfy the outcomes probability for me to find that secret is 0.000976562 ;)

                            The only fair situation is the following: to reveal before the bet hash of the secret and after the bet to reveal the secret.

                            Do you want to make an experiment:

                            • I’ll reveal the formula
                            • I’ll create special address for you
                            • You place 5 bets x 10 FTC ( you will loose them all )
                            • I’ll give you secret that will satisfy the formula and the outcome

                            What do you think? :)

                            [/quote]

                            Yes I don’t dispute this is a viable scam if you only have a very small amount of bets eg: 5 bets and produce the secret for a formula to coincide with the given result of only 32 possibilities (ie: Heads/Tails ^ 5), but start introducing more bets (Also more possibilities) and this will become exponentially more difficult and require some serious computational power and time, time that would/could exceed the given time frame of releasing the secret. To put this in perspective @ only 30 bets (2 ^ 30) the possibilities would increase to 1073741824.

                            I suppose the operator of such a scam would be taking the biggest gamble of anyone and betting (hoping) they have no more than x amount of bets before this scam would be totally exposed.

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                            • S
                              slavco Regular Member last edited by

                              [quote name=“UKMark” post=“46410” timestamp=“1387534335”]
                              [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg46025#msg46025 date=1387416717]
                              Yup on small amount of bets I can easy find the secret ( with given formula ) that will satisfy the games outcomes e.g. prove that system is fair. For x number of bets probability for me to generate secret key that will prove that game is fair is 0.5^x. For example if we have 10 bets and I want to generate secret that will satisfy the outcomes probability for me to find that secret is 0.000976562 ;)

                              The only fair situation is the following: to reveal before the bet hash of the secret and after the bet to reveal the secret.

                              Do you want to make an experiment:

                              • I’ll reveal the formula
                              • I’ll create special address for you
                              • You place 5 bets x 10 FTC ( you will loose them all )
                              • I’ll give you secret that will satisfy the formula and the outcome

                              What do you think? :)

                              [/quote]

                              Yes I don’t dispute this is a viable scam if you only have a very small amount of bets eg: 5 bets and produce the secret for a formula to coincide with the given result of only 32 possibilities (ie: Heads/Tails ^ 5), but start introducing more bets (Also more possibilities) and this will become exponentially more difficult and require some serious computational power and time, time that would/could exceed the given time frame of releasing the secret. To put this in perspective @ only 30 bets (2 ^ 30) the possibilities would increase to 1073741824.

                              I suppose the operator of such a scam would be taking the biggest gamble of anyone and betting (hoping) they have no more than x amount of bets before this scam would be totally exposed.
                              [/quote]

                              Hmm but there are strategies to calculate the “scam” all the time plus not all bets are wins => if operator calculates 30% chances and promote 50% chances he will have very small amount for processing. Extra with sha256 ASIC chips this is quite easy. I’m still waiting to see server secret hash created with scrypt, bmw or some another function :)

                              Also another approach is to fake first X bets and after that ( enough profit ) to continue to be fair.

                              As Kevlar note for this reasons to be fair you must reveal the hash of the secret before bet and after bets to reveal the secret. In this way users would know that secret wasn’t changed and can check fairness via published formula for bet calculation.

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                              • U
                                UKMark last edited by

                                [quote name=“slavco” post=“46419” timestamp=“1387536944”]
                                As Kevlar note for this reasons to be fair you must reveal the hash of the secret before bet and after bets to reveal the secret. In this way users would know that secret wasn’t changed and can check fairness via published formula for bet calculation.
                                [/quote]

                                Now I understand, revealing the secret is not enough to fully show provability…Because of this I have since updated both Heads/Tails & Lucky7 games so that the [i]sha256 hash[/i] of the SecretSalt currently in use is displayed clearly, obviously the un-hashed SecretSalt (the one used to calculate the bets) will be revealed at the end of each day as usual.

                                [url=http://www.ftcgames.eu/]http://www.ftcgames.eu/[/url]

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                                • K
                                  Kevlar Spammer last edited by

                                  [quote name=“UKMark” post=“46725” timestamp=“1387660070”]
                                  [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg46419#msg46419 date=1387536944]
                                  As Kevlar note for this reasons to be fair you must reveal the hash of the secret before bet and after bets to reveal the secret. In this way users would know that secret wasn’t changed and can check fairness via published formula for bet calculation.
                                  [/quote]

                                  Now I understand, revealing the secret is not enough to fully show provability…Because of this I have since updated both Heads/Tails & Lucky7 games so that the [i]sha256 hash[/i] of the SecretSalt currently in use is displayed clearly, obviously the un-hashed SecretSalt (the one used to calculate the bets) will be revealed at the end of each day as usual.

                                  [url=http://www.ftcgames.eu/]http://www.ftcgames.eu/[/url]
                                  [/quote]

                                  +1 dude. Nicely done.

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                                  • U
                                    UKMark last edited by

                                    [quote name=“Kevlar” post=“46756” timestamp=“1387669654”]
                                    [quote author=UKMark link=topic=5931.msg46725#msg46725 date=1387660070]
                                    [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg46419#msg46419 date=1387536944]
                                    As Kevlar note for this reasons to be fair you must reveal the hash of the secret before bet and after bets to reveal the secret. In this way users would know that secret wasn’t changed and can check fairness via published formula for bet calculation.
                                    [/quote]

                                    Now I understand, revealing the secret is not enough to fully show provability…Because of this I have since updated both Heads/Tails & Lucky7 games so that the [i]sha256 hash[/i] of the SecretSalt currently in use is displayed clearly, obviously the un-hashed SecretSalt (the one used to calculate the bets) will be revealed at the end of each day as usual.

                                    [url=http://www.ftcgames.eu/]http://www.ftcgames.eu/[/url]
                                    [/quote]

                                    +1 dude. Nicely done.
                                    [/quote]

                                    Its the only way Kevlar, had I realised sooner I would of implemented sooner, it was literally a 10min job (if that) to make the additions so no excuse not to offer this, it has certainly made me look at a large percentage of Crypto gambling sites currently out there in a totally different light. :-\

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                                    • S
                                      slavco Regular Member last edited by

                                      [quote name=“Kevlar” post=“46756” timestamp=“1387669654”]
                                      [quote author=UKMark link=topic=5931.msg46725#msg46725 date=1387660070]
                                      [quote author=slavco link=topic=5931.msg46419#msg46419 date=1387536944]
                                      As Kevlar note for this reasons to be fair you must reveal the hash of the secret before bet and after bets to reveal the secret. In this way users would know that secret wasn’t changed and can check fairness via published formula for bet calculation.
                                      [/quote]

                                      Now I understand, revealing the secret is not enough to fully show provability…Because of this I have since updated both Heads/Tails & Lucky7 games so that the [i]sha256 hash[/i] of the SecretSalt currently in use is displayed clearly, obviously the un-hashed SecretSalt (the one used to calculate the bets) will be revealed at the end of each day as usual.

                                      [url=http://www.ftcgames.eu/]http://www.ftcgames.eu/[/url]
                                      [/quote]

                                      +1 dude. Nicely done.
                                      [/quote]

                                      +1 It was easy because you was honest all the time.

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                                      • F
                                        FTClover Regular Member Banned last edited by

                                        [quote name=“iawgoM” post=“43766” timestamp=“1386936729”]
                                        Btw. there is already something similar here: [url=http://www.ftcgames.eu/]http://www.ftcgames.eu/[/url]

                                        Pozdrav! :)
                                        [/quote]

                                        Thanks for that! Ive made a tonne in winnings on the lucky 7 :D

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                                        • K
                                          Kevlar Spammer last edited by

                                          So I noticed the page is kinda refreshing constantly. That can’t be good for server load.

                                          Have you considered using WebSockets for the updates, so the server can push when there’s a change? socket.io makes this really trivial to do.

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                                          • U
                                            UKMark last edited by

                                            [quote name=“FTClover” post=“47166” timestamp=“1387832960”]
                                            [quote author=iawgoM link=topic=5931.msg43766#msg43766 date=1386936729]
                                            Btw. there is already something similar here: [url=http://www.ftcgames.eu/]http://www.ftcgames.eu/[/url]

                                            Pozdrav! :)
                                            [/quote]

                                            Thanks for that! Ive made a tonne in winnings on the lucky 7 :D
                                            [/quote]

                                            :o But I still need to buy a turkey. :‘( :’( :'(

                                            [quote author=Kevlar link=topic=5931.msg47176#msg47176 date=1387834036]
                                            So I noticed the page is kinda refreshing constantly. That can’t be good for server load.

                                            Have you considered using WebSockets for the updates, so the server can push when there’s a change? socket.io makes this really trivial to do.
                                            [/quote]

                                            As you can see this was my ‘roll your own’ approach :D
                                            I looked at (and even started) something called comet? (I think that was the name) but I got lost as it seemed overly complex for what I wanted to achieve (quickly) and had other things I wanted to prioritize.

                                            If you recommend sockets.io I will certainly take a look in the new year and yes CPU is @ 102% most of the time :o

                                            Thanks!

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