The attack is over and we can thank automatic coin choice pools
-
[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“12040” timestamp=“1370829675”]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12028#msg12028 date=1370828601]
[quote author=Simber link=topic=1463.msg12025#msg12025 date=1370828433]
It’s nice to see that the attacks had little effect on today’s market value.
[/quote]Yep, because devs here chose to ignore the attacks rather than take a price hit. Way to go with raising credibility of the coin.
[/quote]This is inaccurate. There was no ‘ignoring’… please take a minute and look through the thread, there are a number of argument… no choice is going to be universally agreed upon. We’re human and doing our best. These are attacks… it’s not like we’re dealing with business as usual.
[b]Your objection is noted.[/b] We don’t need to start down the ‘way to go’ sarcasm route, we just don’t. Honestly, [b]I’m sorry we disappointed you[/b], I’m sorry we might lose your support… I really am. I’m willing to accept that our choice doesn’t sit well with you. I just want to make it clear that there was no ‘chose to ignore’.
I value our miners tremendously. We have a number interesting technical challenges ahead of us… one that any newer alt coin will face because of the sheer amount of GPU being shifted to Scrypt based coins. For those that are willing to take the ride with us, we’re investigating solutions (uncharted territory right now) and for those that choose to move on, hopefully we’ll meet again down the road… everyone is always welcome here.
[/quote]Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.
I just hope this decision turns out to be the right one for the community in the end.
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[quote name=“stulowe” post=“12042” timestamp=“1370829843”]
[quote author=justabitoftime link=topic=1463.msg12040#msg12040 date=1370829675]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12028#msg12028 date=1370828601]
[quote author=Simber link=topic=1463.msg12025#msg12025 date=1370828433]
It’s nice to see that the attacks had little effect on today’s market value.
[/quote]Yep, because devs here chose to ignore the attacks rather than take a price hit. Way to go with raising credibility of the coin.
[/quote]This is inaccurate. There was no ‘ignoring’… please take a minute and look through the thread, there are a number of argument… no choice is going to be universally agreed upon. We’re human and doing our best. These are attacks… it’s not like we’re dealing with business as usual.
[b]Your objection is noted.[/b] We don’t need to start down the ‘way to go’ sarcasm route, we just don’t. Honestly, [b]I’m sorry we disappointed you[/b], I’m sorry we might lose your support… I really am. I’m willing to accept that our choice doesn’t sit well with you. I just want to make it clear that there was no ‘chose to ignore’.
I value our miners tremendously. We have a number interesting technical challenges ahead of us… one that any newer alt coin will face because of the sheer amount of GPU being shifted to Scrypt based coins. For those that are willing to take the ride with us, we’re investigating solutions (uncharted territory right now) and for those that choose to move on, hopefully we’ll meet again down the road… everyone is always welcome here.
[/quote]Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.
I just hope this decision turns out to be the right one for the community in the end.
[/quote]Me too! We all have a lot of hours together on this project, interesting times ahead.
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[quote name=“stulowe” post=“12037” timestamp=“1370829567”]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12034#msg12034 date=1370829371]
[quote author=jeremiel link=topic=1463.msg12023#msg12023 date=1370828277]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12001#msg12001 date=1370826406]
There is another side. Because of this event miners are now getting twice what they were, sooner.I know it’s no consolation, but there is an actual benefit (not to mention price, more miners, stronger network) you can attribute to this event.
[/quote]
yeah that would work if miners could actually mine. Also, it benefits just the pump and dumpers so you have just given a middle finger to the long haul people.
[/quote]I’m not sure how pointing out a benefit can be associated with me [i]“giving a middle finger”[/i] to anyone, especially [i]“long haul”[/i] people considering my circumstances.
But I respect your right to have your own opinion.
[/quote]Long term people as in supporters. Those who propped up the mining rate and kept the coin from dying at a loss for themselves and want to see the coin do well for the coins sake. Not the long term bag holders who bought in when it was high before and have been sniffing around the forum pretending to support until they can make their money back.
[/quote]Oh well, ya got me! I’ve never mined FTC a day in my life and have never purchased under .004 and I spend all my time here trying to drive the price up to make back the vast empire I have lost investing too high.
Ok, gigs up guys I’m out!
-
[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“12040” timestamp=“1370829675”]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12028#msg12028 date=1370828601]
[quote author=Simber link=topic=1463.msg12025#msg12025 date=1370828433]
It’s nice to see that the attacks had little effect on today’s market value.
[/quote]Yep, because devs here chose to ignore the attacks rather than take a price hit. Way to go with raising credibility of the coin.
[/quote]Thanks for the response. First one I have read that seems to understand how we feel.
As we are human, as this is a community I put it to everyone to check this thread and leave your thoughts
http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=1474.0
This is inaccurate. There was no ‘ignoring’… please take a minute and look through the thread, there are a number of argument… no choice is going to be universally agreed upon. We’re human and doing our best. These are attacks… it’s not like we’re dealing with business as usual.
[b]Your objection is noted.[/b] We don’t need to start down the ‘way to go’ sarcasm route, we just don’t. Honestly, [b]I’m sorry we disappointed you[/b], I’m sorry we might lose your support… I really am. I’m willing to accept that our choice doesn’t sit well with you. I just want to make it clear that there was no ‘chose to ignore’.
I value our miners tremendously. We have a number interesting technical challenges ahead of us… one that any newer alt coin will face because of the sheer amount of GPU being shifted to Scrypt based coins. For those that are willing to take the ride with us, we’re investigating solutions (uncharted territory right now) and for those that choose to move on, hopefully we’ll meet again down the road… everyone is always welcome here.
[/quote]Odd the message didn’t post, I posted thanks for the response, it’s the first one I have seen from a board member who seems to understand how we feel.
I have started a thread for people to share opinions. If this is a community we can find a solutions together.
-
[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“12044” timestamp=“1370829936”]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12037#msg12037 date=1370829567]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12034#msg12034 date=1370829371]
[quote author=jeremiel link=topic=1463.msg12023#msg12023 date=1370828277]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12001#msg12001 date=1370826406]
There is another side. Because of this event miners are now getting twice what they were, sooner.I know it’s no consolation, but there is an actual benefit (not to mention price, more miners, stronger network) you can attribute to this event.
[/quote]
yeah that would work if miners could actually mine. Also, it benefits just the pump and dumpers so you have just given a middle finger to the long haul people.
[/quote]I’m not sure how pointing out a benefit can be associated with me [i]“giving a middle finger”[/i] to anyone, especially [i]“long haul”[/i] people considering my circumstances.
But I respect your right to have your own opinion.
[/quote]Long term people as in supporters. Those who propped up the mining rate and kept the coin from dying at a loss for themselves and want to see the coin do well for the coins sake. Not the long term bag holders who bought in when it was high before and have been sniffing around the forum pretending to support until they can make their money back.
[/quote]Oh well, ya got me! I’ve never mined FTC a day in my life and have never purchased under .004 and I spend all my time here trying to drive the price up to make back the vast empire I have lost investing too high.
Ok, gigs up guys I’m out!
[/quote]That wasn’t targeted at you.
Be good to get some confirmation on what’s going on with the pools. is fcpool.com on the wrong chain now?
-
[quote name=“stulowe” post=“12050” timestamp=“1370830249”]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12044#msg12044 date=1370829936]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12037#msg12037 date=1370829567]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12034#msg12034 date=1370829371]
[quote author=jeremiel link=topic=1463.msg12023#msg12023 date=1370828277]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12001#msg12001 date=1370826406]
There is another side. Because of this event miners are now getting twice what they were, sooner.I know it’s no consolation, but there is an actual benefit (not to mention price, more miners, stronger network) you can attribute to this event.
[/quote]
yeah that would work if miners could actually mine. Also, it benefits just the pump and dumpers so you have just given a middle finger to the long haul people.
[/quote]I’m not sure how pointing out a benefit can be associated with me [i]“giving a middle finger”[/i] to anyone, especially [i]“long haul”[/i] people considering my circumstances.
But I respect your right to have your own opinion.
[/quote]Long term people as in supporters. Those who propped up the mining rate and kept the coin from dying at a loss for themselves and want to see the coin do well for the coins sake. Not the long term bag holders who bought in when it was high before and have been sniffing around the forum pretending to support until they can make their money back.
[/quote]Oh well, ya got me! I’ve never mined FTC a day in my life and have never purchased under .004 and I spend all my time here trying to drive the price up to make back the vast empire I have lost investing too high.
Ok, gigs up guys I’m out!
[/quote]That wasn’t targeted at you.
Be good to get some confirmation on what’s going on with the pools. is fcpool.com on the wrong chain now?
[/quote]
d2 pool seems to be having a lot of problems. I cant maintain a connection to the pool, and the pool isn’t finding any blocks. I have shifted some of my mining power to p2pool for the moment.I would love to hear from Bushstar and zerodrama and what their thoughts are on the whole situation. But I understand they are probably trying to get some rest.
-
Ok so there was an attack. That is to be expected. What i did not expect was my dogs to stop my mining while i was at a graduation party and buying a house. We will get through it just as we got through the abysmally high difficulty. I am not worried and I will continue to mine even though my pool currently is charging an outrageous fee.
if you happen to run the pool that I mine on. First off I love your pool. Second smack yourself. Seriously, high five yourself in the face. I have been paying a fee already and donating some extra if your “hot wallet” could not handle the abuse after all the fees that you have already collected as well as the donations (there are many donators) then you are doing it wrong. We both know that at some point you must have oversold your FTC which is what put you in the situation you are in the first place. Put the fee back to what it was and stop your nonsense.
Now that I have gotten that off my chest. Back to the subject at hand. Forking the chain is and always has been a bad idea. Do not do it. Attacks are to be expected and there is very little that can be done. That is the reality. It all sorts itself out eventually. FTC is still an infant and you do not choke a baby because it filled its diaper.
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“12034” timestamp=“1370829371”]
[quote author=jeremiel link=topic=1463.msg12023#msg12023 date=1370828277]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12001#msg12001 date=1370826406]
There is another side. Because of this event miners are now getting twice what they were, sooner.I know it’s no consolation, but there is an actual benefit (not to mention price, more miners, stronger network) you can attribute to this event.
[/quote]
yeah that would work if miners could actually mine. Also, it benefits just the pump and dumpers so you have just given a middle finger to the long haul people.
[/quote]I’m not sure how pointing out a benefit can be associated with me [i]“giving a middle finger”[/i] to anyone, especially [i]“long haul”[/i] people considering my circumstances.
But I respect your right to have your own opinion.
[/quote]
I stated this earlier in the week about not making this stuff about the pump and dumpers(p/ds). Most of the people keeping FTC afloat were the smaller miners, not the 5MH or higher. Now the p/ds will bring a lot of hash power but they will leave at a moments notice(ryc, cnc, mnc). Typically, with the high hash rates in a pool people get less especially if they are smaller. With the block adjustment a high hash rate can move a pool quickly and the smaller miners see none of those gains. Now longterm we need those high hashes but the marketplace needs to exist to truly encourage that properly.A good hash rate max for a pool seems to be around 100mh after that it gets weird. A higher difficulty would of course justify a higher hashrate thus adjusting this…
The best solution I see for all of this is a massive push for many smaller pools, thus less concentration, and a centralized reference to see that those pools exist that way a quick spot check of legitimate pools can be seen during an attack. Of course my opinion as a small miner…
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[quote name=“DaMooMoo” post=“12055” timestamp=“1370830830”]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12050#msg12050 date=1370830249]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12044#msg12044 date=1370829936]
[quote author=stulowe link=topic=1463.msg12037#msg12037 date=1370829567]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12034#msg12034 date=1370829371]
[quote author=jeremiel link=topic=1463.msg12023#msg12023 date=1370828277]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=1463.msg12001#msg12001 date=1370826406]
There is another side. Because of this event miners are now getting twice what they were, sooner.I know it’s no consolation, but there is an actual benefit (not to mention price, more miners, stronger network) you can attribute to this event.
[/quote]
yeah that would work if miners could actually mine. Also, it benefits just the pump and dumpers so you have just given a middle finger to the long haul people.
[/quote]I’m not sure how pointing out a benefit can be associated with me [i]“giving a middle finger”[/i] to anyone, especially [i]“long haul”[/i] people considering my circumstances.
But I respect your right to have your own opinion.
[/quote]Long term people as in supporters. Those who propped up the mining rate and kept the coin from dying at a loss for themselves and want to see the coin do well for the coins sake. Not the long term bag holders who bought in when it was high before and have been sniffing around the forum pretending to support until they can make their money back.
[/quote]Oh well, ya got me! I’ve never mined FTC a day in my life and have never purchased under .004 and I spend all my time here trying to drive the price up to make back the vast empire I have lost investing too high.
Ok, gigs up guys I’m out!
[/quote]That wasn’t targeted at you.
Be good to get some confirmation on what’s going on with the pools. is fcpool.com on the wrong chain now?
[/quote]
d2 pool seems to be having a lot of problems. I cant maintain a connection to the pool, and the pool isn’t finding any blocks. I have shifted some of my mining power to p2pool for the moment.I would love to hear from Bushstar and zerodrama and what their thoughts are on the whole situation. But I understand they are probably trying to get some rest.
[/quote]
D2 was one of my backups and I can’t connect… -
[quote name=“whenhowwho” post=“12064” timestamp=“1370831373”]
FTC is still an infant and you do not choke a baby because it filled its diaper.
[/quote][img]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Nicolas-Cage-Laugh.gif[/img]
-
I would love to attract smaller miners. I’m even willing to put up some type of major contest to support it. Please hit me with specific ideas and I’ll run it across our contest lead.
Like everyone here, I want solutions.
-
[quote name=“whenhowwho” post=“12064” timestamp=“1370831373”]
Ok so there was an attack. That is to be expected. What i did not expect was my dogs to stop my mining while i was at a graduation party and buying a house. We will get through it just as we got through the abysmally high difficulty. I am not worried and I will continue to mine even though my pool currently is charging an outrageous fee.if you happen to run the pool that I mine on. First off I love your pool. Second smack yourself. Seriously, high five yourself in the face. I have been paying a fee already and donating some extra if your “hot wallet” could not handle the abuse after all the fees that you have already collected as well as the donations (there are many donators) then you are doing it wrong. We both know that at some point you must have oversold your FTC which is what put you in the situation you are in the first place. Put the fee back to what it was and stop your nonsense.
Now that I have gotten that off my chest. Back to the subject at hand. Forking the chain is and always has been a bad idea. Do not do it. Attacks are to be expected and there is very little that can be done. That is the reality. It all sorts itself out eventually. FTC is still an infant and you do not choke a baby because it filled its diaper.
[/quote]Pools should NEVER trade with user coins.
From my point of view accepting such an attack is insane, but well it is not my coin so i will follow the main devs decision…
We will drop Feathercoin PPS Support for now. We jumped back on the attackers chain, like everybody else.
I am asking myself for what checkpoints are made for?..but anyways… happy mining …
-
[quote name=“hynodeva” post=“12107” timestamp=“1370833384”]
[quote author=whenhowwho link=topic=1463.msg12064#msg12064 date=1370831373]
Ok so there was an attack. That is to be expected. What i did not expect was my dogs to stop my mining while i was at a graduation party and buying a house. We will get through it just as we got through the abysmally high difficulty. I am not worried and I will continue to mine even though my pool currently is charging an outrageous fee.if you happen to run the pool that I mine on. First off I love your pool. Second smack yourself. Seriously, high five yourself in the face. I have been paying a fee already and donating some extra if your “hot wallet” could not handle the abuse after all the fees that you have already collected as well as the donations (there are many donators) then you are doing it wrong. We both know that at some point you must have oversold your FTC which is what put you in the situation you are in the first place. Put the fee back to what it was and stop your nonsense.
Now that I have gotten that off my chest. Back to the subject at hand. Forking the chain is and always has been a bad idea. Do not do it. Attacks are to be expected and there is very little that can be done. That is the reality. It all sorts itself out eventually. FTC is still an infant and you do not choke a baby because it filled its diaper.
[/quote]Pools should NEVER trade with user coins.
From my point of view accepting such an attack is insane, but well it is not my coin so i will follow the main devs decision…
We will drop Feathercoin PPS Support for now. We jumped back on the attackers chain, like everybody else.
I am asking myself for what checkpoints are made for?..but anyways… happy mining …
[/quote]+1
-
[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“11980” timestamp=“1370823780”]
The attacker isn’t trying to profit.The attacker wants us to reverse.
That will kill FTC because it would hurt legitimate miners and buyers and sellers especially when we are opening the market.
Stop worrying about the attacker making money. They want to waste their money to hurt us and then we’re going to hurt our users?
[/quote]
A million times this.I understand the desire to try and do something to stop the attackers’ supposed profit, but what people have been discussing doing would do far more harm to the reputation of FTC than any harm it would do to the attackers. Yes, 51% attacks are a problem. However, drastic actions will not solve the problem. As zerodrama has said, he is working on ways to combat this. Anyone can put a band-aid on a problem; good solutions take time.
-
solution: keep mining 8)
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[quote name=“whenhowwho” post=“12064” timestamp=“1370831373”]
if you happen to run the pool that I mine on. First off I love your pool. Second smack yourself. Seriously, high five yourself in the face. I have been paying a fee already and donating some extra if your “hot wallet” could not handle the abuse after all the fees that you have already collected as well as the donations (there are many donators) then you are doing it wrong. We both know that at some point you must have oversold your FTC which is what put you in the situation you are in the first place. Put the fee back to what it was and stop your nonsense.
[/quote]If its the same pool I’m on then it’s to basically get people off the pool.
I too donate. after doing so, found there was no ‘faster’ donor pool anyway, but meh, no biggie. But now it’s about what… a total of 10% to mine there.
Nah, I make less than 20 coins a day at the current difficulty. and with all this shit going on, I have no idea what pools are good, grumpy, bad, or crazy.
as for having multiple pools set up in my miner, that’s like asking me to spread a teaspoon of butter on a dozen loaves of bread and expect it to stick. between 120 confirms or over 20 hours to confirm it’s just not reasonable.
im just going to close my eyes and forget about it, leave it go… sfa else I can do about anything…
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“11919” timestamp=“1370817760”]
Give Me FTC shut off withdrawals. This has effectively killed the attack.Because of the high hashrate the attacker was also overwhelmed by automatic coin choice pools.
The result was that many scrypt miners turned to FTC which snowballed. The attacker still managed to get some coin. But again this shows that a 51% injection and a full attack are different things.
To fully attack you must:
Gain 51% of the mining power.
SUSTAIN the 51% mining power.
Orphan legitimate block generation.
Get people to confirm your blocks.There is a misconception that mining helps the attacker. Yes, it helps the attacker to confirm some of his false coins. BUT, as soon as the rest of the network reaches higher rate than his, the ledger gets reorganized.
This would have been a hell of a lot worse without automatic coin choice pools. They routed a ton of hashpower at FTC. This broke the attacker’s control of the blockchain.
[/quote]On behalf of Multipool, you’re welcome.
But seriously, we did not have the hash rate to match the attackers, even when the multiport switched to FTC.
-
It’s like Oprah here today.
-
[quote name=“Mogumodz” post=“12185” timestamp=“1370841682”]
It’s like Oprah here today.
[/quote]Do we get free gifts? I’ve looked under my chair, but no luck.
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“12186” timestamp=“1370841774”]
[quote author=Mogumodz link=topic=1463.msg12185#msg12185 date=1370841682]
It’s like Oprah here today.
[/quote]Do we get free gifts? I’ve looked under my chair, but no luck.
[/quote]No sorry, attacker took them so we have none :(