This Difficulty Retarget Problem
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[quote name=“sumantso” post=“2022” timestamp=“1368168640”]
Its a shame that all those who stick through the high difficulty phase can’t reap the reward when the difficulty falls.If we are changing the difficulty scheme with a hard fork, I would say do it quickly. The reason being that it will save the diffculty crashing after the next retarget.
PS: Bushstar, it was great to see you pointing out the good support that FeatherCoin has on the Trollbox. I am trying my part in keeping the spirit up but you can’t save idiots from selling at 0.0017.
[/quote]TBH the way the coin is at the minute, I can understand people selling all the way down to the very bottom, as they will more than likely be able to buy back in much lower when the next diff-change+dump occurs…Like you say the ones who stick through the high difficulty will be the ones who won’t really reap a reward, because as soon as the difficulty drops and the hashrate increases, those big rigs will be able to mine in 2-3 hours what has taken most of us 2-3+ weeks to acquire. :-\
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I think if we are going to fork, it needs to be done now.
The hashrate has dropped to practically nil which exposes us to the 51% attack and the re-target time is just getting further away. The further away it gets the more people abandon it. Me may never hit the re-target. At present there are very few people on the network (as can be seen with the amount of time it takes to get confirmations) and the number is falling as it becomes less profitable to mine and/or trade.
The price is falling rapidly as people are loosing faith and there seems to be growing calls on the trollbox for the altcoins (ftc & cnc) to removed from BTC-e.
I say we take the opportunity to fork now whilst there are very few people mining and trading the coins from their wallets. It wont go down well but it will only get worse in time.
EDIT: Thinking about it, a fork would show that we are proactively supporting and maintaining ftc rather than leaving it to rot. People like things that are actively developed.
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Is it possible to hire peoples to mining FTC for a week to short the re-target time?
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[quote name=“elvis09” post=“2092” timestamp=“1368178333”]
Is it possible to hire peoples to mining FTC for a week to short the re-target time?
[/quote]
You mean, pay the big miners, to mine and make even MORE money?
I think that’s quite a bad idea to be honest. x: -
Not big miner, just for small miner by paying FTC
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Does someone have a website where we can see the live network kh/s or mh/s?
stats.feathercoin.com has the average over the last xx blocks. -
[quote name=“elvis09” post=“2095” timestamp=“1368178796”]
Not big miner, just for small miner by paying FTC
[/quote]
But you can’t provide an incentive for one and not the other. Doing so would stir up a fair amount of problems within the community and give other communities and haters a nice wedge of incentive to poke fun with. -
To get miners back on board the difficulty MUST drop. I know because i’m a miner with 15MH/s and a huge electric bill and hardware costs. As much as i want to help FTC, by mining it now i’ll be throwing away $1000s per month.
In a few hours LTC diff will fly up 25% so all the miners (me included) will be looking for the next most profitable coin which will likely be cnc (ftc’s direct competitor as far as i can tell) but possibly trc or ppc or… Of course this means that there will be renewed interest in CNC and other alts. Then the LTC diff will drop again, rinse and repeat. Basically no-one will be interested in ftc. Every time i click the stats page we add a day to the re-target and the hash rate drops. we’ll never get there!
Honestly, we need to act quickly me thinks. Pref before the LTC diff increase.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“2113” timestamp=“1368182060”]
To get miners back on board the difficulty MUST drop. I know because i’m a miner with 15MH/s and a huge electric bill and hardware costs. As much as i want to help FTC, by mining it now i’ll be throwing away $1000s per month.In a few hours LTC diff will fly up 25% so all the miners (me included) will be looking for the next most profitable coin which will likely be cnc (ftc’s direct competitor as far as i can tell) but possibly trc or ppc or… Of course this means that there will be renewed interest in CNC and other alts. Then the LTC diff will drop again, rinse and repeat. Basically no-one will be interested in ftc. Every time i click the stats page we add a day to the re-target and the hash rate drops. we’ll never get there!
Honestly, we need to act quickly me thinks. Pref before the LTC diff increase.
[/quote]Even so, with 15mH/s you could make a big difference even if it meant 1 month at break even (obviously not loss) - But hey I do understand you not wanting to, it’s only logical if you are in it to profit short term.
I do agree something needs to be done pronto, as even sending Feathercoin and waiting for 1 confirm is now taking longer than sending BTC and waiting for 6. :o -
If we went for a 504 difficulty adjust we need to work out how much the difficulty will be adjusted. We do not want the overall effect to be drastically different, we want to end up with a more fine grained difficulty adjust. I have made a couple of rough tables below comparing the difficulty value when it goes up.
Normal difficulty adjust
0…2016 Block count
4 …16 Difficulty going up 400%504 difficulty adjust
0…504…1008…1512…2016 Block Count
4…5.6…7.84…10.96…15.36 Difficulty going up by 140%
4…6…9…13.5…20.25 Difficulty going up by 150%
4…8…16…32…64 Difficulty going up by 200%
4…16…64…256…1024 Difficulty going up by 400% -
I have to confess i’m not entirely sure how the whole fork thing works (and i’m no coder) but, if we do fork, what are we suggesting? Resetting the difficulty manually or just changing the re-target block?
Can we have a variable re-target block based on hash rate? plucking a figure from the air say 126 blocks per GH/s working on a 150% diff change? or am i talking drivel?
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“2128” timestamp=“1368185055”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=305.msg2113#msg2113 date=1368182060]
To get miners back on board the difficulty MUST drop. I know because i’m a miner with 15MH/s and a huge electric bill and hardware costs. As much as i want to help FTC, by mining it now i’ll be throwing away $1000s per month.In a few hours LTC diff will fly up 25% so all the miners (me included) will be looking for the next most profitable coin which will likely be cnc (ftc’s direct competitor as far as i can tell) but possibly trc or ppc or… Of course this means that there will be renewed interest in CNC and other alts. Then the LTC diff will drop again, rinse and repeat. Basically no-one will be interested in ftc. Every time i click the stats page we add a day to the re-target and the hash rate drops. we’ll never get there!
Honestly, we need to act quickly me thinks. Pref before the LTC diff increase.
[/quote]Even so, with 15mH/s you could make a big difference even if it meant 1 month at break even (obviously not loss) - But hey I do understand you not wanting to, it’s only logical if you are in it to profit short term.
I do agree something needs to be done pronto, as even sending Feathercoin and waiting for 1 confirm is now taking longer than sending BTC and waiting for 6. :o
[/quote]I agree but it’s the people with 15Mh/sec hash power that caused the problems in the first place, I’m gonna lose some dollars on electricity, yeah because all miners like you left us to clean up this mess.
Short term indeed
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We need to address the Retarget Problem [b]now[/b].
This is no religion, this is the market. Users will not mine Feathercoin because they [i]believe[/i] in it - they will mine it because it’s profitable.
[b]So we have to get difficulty down ASAP!
[/b]
Additionally (long term) we either have to build up an infrastructure of shops, sites, services, etc. that accept Feathercoin. -
[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“2144” timestamp=“1368189976”]
We need to address the Retarget Problem [b]now[/b].This is no religion, this is the market. Users will not mine Feathercoin because they [i]believe[/i] in it - they will mine it because it’s profitable.
[b]So we have to get difficulty down ASAP!
[/b]
Additionally (long term) we either have to build up an infrastructure of shops, sites, services, etc. that accept Feathercoin.
[/quote]Well some of us believe in it, otherwise I would be mining LTC or CNC right now, but agree we need services, and the total-hashrate needs to go tenfold for this to be workable, because at the minute even sending FTC is taking forever.
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I agree, some of us do this because we believe in it, not because we’re trying to make a profit, although that may be a nice bonus.
Are the two approaches somewhat mutually exclusive? I’m beginning to think they are personally…
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[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“2144” timestamp=“1368189976”]
We need to address the Retarget Problem [b]now[/b].This is no religion, this is the market. Users will not mine Feathercoin because they [i]believe[/i] in it - they will mine it because it’s profitable.
[b]So we have to get difficulty down ASAP!
[/b]
Additionally (long term) we either have to build up an infrastructure of shops, sites, services, etc. that accept Feathercoin.
[/quote]True, some of us are actually already contacting webmasters about adopting Feathercoin in their webshop.
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[quote name=“Armandoke” post=“2142” timestamp=“1368189939”]
[quote author=UKMark link=topic=305.msg2128#msg2128 date=1368185055]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=305.msg2113#msg2113 date=1368182060]
To get miners back on board the difficulty MUST drop. I know because i’m a miner with 15MH/s and a huge electric bill and hardware costs. As much as i want to help FTC, by mining it now i’ll be throwing away $1000s per month.In a few hours LTC diff will fly up 25% so all the miners (me included) will be looking for the next most profitable coin which will likely be cnc (ftc’s direct competitor as far as i can tell) but possibly trc or ppc or… Of course this means that there will be renewed interest in CNC and other alts. Then the LTC diff will drop again, rinse and repeat. Basically no-one will be interested in ftc. Every time i click the stats page we add a day to the re-target and the hash rate drops. we’ll never get there!
Honestly, we need to act quickly me thinks. Pref before the LTC diff increase.
[/quote]Even so, with 15mH/s you could make a big difference even if it meant 1 month at break even (obviously not loss) - But hey I do understand you not wanting to, it’s only logical if you are in it to profit short term.
I do agree something needs to be done pronto, as even sending Feathercoin and waiting for 1 confirm is now taking longer than sending BTC and waiting for 6. :o
[/quote]I agree but it’s the people with 15Mh/sec hash power that caused the problems in the first place, I’m gonna lose some dollars on electricity, yeah because all miners like you left us to clean up this mess.
Short term indeed
[/quote]Tell me honestly - if you had 15MHs at your disposal that cost you about £8500 + running costs etc, what would you do with it? Mine a non profitable coin? i think not! FTC NEEDS full time miners as does everycoin. Stabilise the difficulty and we’ll stay!
As Radacoin says miners mine because of profits and as I have previously stated, we ARE a ruthless lot and we will mine the most profitable coin. It up to the DEVELOPERS to make the coin much less vulnerable to people hopping in and out. The fact i’m here making some suggestions as to how to improve the coin should tell you that i’m a believer but i do have bills to pay and i would loose $1000s per month - it’s just not an option…
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“2145” timestamp=“1368190558”]
[quote author=Radacoin link=topic=305.msg2144#msg2144 date=1368189976]
We need to address the Retarget Problem [b]now[/b].This is no religion, this is the market. Users will not mine Feathercoin because they [i]believe[/i] in it - they will mine it because it’s profitable.
[b]So we have to get difficulty down ASAP!
[/b]
Additionally (long term) we either have to build up an infrastructure of shops, sites, services, etc. that accept Feathercoin.
[/quote]Well [b][color=red]some of us[/color][/b] believe in it, otherwise I would be mining LTC or CNC right now, …
[/quote]But those are the minority (just look at the continuously decreasing network hashrate). And they are getting less by the minute.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“2148” timestamp=“1368191044”]
Tell me honestly - if you had 15MHs at your disposal that cost you about £8500 + running costs etc, what would you do with it? Mine a non profitable coin? i think not! FTC NEEDS full time miners as does everycoin. Stabilise the difficulty and we’ll stay!
As Radacoin says miners mine because of profits and as I have previously stated, we ARE a ruthless lot and we will mine the most profitable coin. It up to the DEVELOPERS to make the coin much less vulnerable to people hopping in and out. The fact i’m here making some suggestions as to how to improve the coin should tell you that i’m a believer but i do have bills to pay and i would loose $1000s per month - it’s just not an option…
[/quote]I second that.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“2148” timestamp=“1368191044”]
[quote author=Armandoke link=topic=305.msg2142#msg2142 date=1368189939]
[quote author=UKMark link=topic=305.msg2128#msg2128 date=1368185055]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=305.msg2113#msg2113 date=1368182060]
To get miners back on board the difficulty MUST drop. I know because i’m a miner with 15MH/s and a huge electric bill and hardware costs. As much as i want to help FTC, by mining it now i’ll be throwing away $1000s per month.In a few hours LTC diff will fly up 25% so all the miners (me included) will be looking for the next most profitable coin which will likely be cnc (ftc’s direct competitor as far as i can tell) but possibly trc or ppc or… Of course this means that there will be renewed interest in CNC and other alts. Then the LTC diff will drop again, rinse and repeat. Basically no-one will be interested in ftc. Every time i click the stats page we add a day to the re-target and the hash rate drops. we’ll never get there!
Honestly, we need to act quickly me thinks. Pref before the LTC diff increase.
[/quote]Even so, with 15mH/s you could make a big difference even if it meant 1 month at break even (obviously not loss) - But hey I do understand you not wanting to, it’s only logical if you are in it to profit short term.
I do agree something needs to be done pronto, as even sending Feathercoin and waiting for 1 confirm is now taking longer than sending BTC and waiting for 6. :o
[/quote]I agree but it’s the people with 15Mh/sec hash power that caused the problems in the first place, I’m gonna lose some dollars on electricity, yeah because all miners like you left us to clean up this mess.
Short term indeed
[/quote]Tell me honestly - if you had 15MHs at your disposal that cost you about £8500 + running costs etc, what would you do with it? Mine a non profitable coin? i think not! FTC NEEDS full time miners as does everycoin. Stabilise the difficulty and we’ll stay!
As Radacoin says miners mine because of profits and as I have previously stated, we ARE a ruthless lot and we will mine the most profitable coin. It up to the DEVELOPERS to make the coin much less vulnerable to people hopping in and out. The fact i’m here making some suggestions as to how to improve the coin should tell you that i’m a believer but i do have bills to pay and i would loose $1000s per month - it’s just not an option…
[/quote]Like I said I can understand why you do it…Although you seem to mixing up, [i]profit[/i] with [i]loss [/i]and [i]greater profit[/i].
I would not mine at a loss, but I would mine for less profit, there is a difference, at the current rate of exchange I’m above break even = profit. Granted not at the level of profit of LTC but still at profit not total loss.
