This Difficulty Retarget Problem
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[quote name=“CptAwesome” post=“2180” timestamp=“1368195907”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2177#msg2177 date=1368195730]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2175#msg2175 date=1368195350]
Lots of talk about the miners.
Miners need to make money, you will have no miners until then.You need to pump up the currency and all your issues go away.
[/quote]Miners need to start charging fees and providing service. Miners don’t need to make money. Only the paranoid need money. Miners need to start building businesses and communities.
All you wankers want someone else to do the work for you.
[/quote]You have no currency without the miners. We do charge, we charge in coins, coins worth money, if they are worthless, we don’t.
Miner’s dont need to start building shit, we are the foundation of your business. Please try and build it without us. OH RIGHT! that’s the issue you have right now, you are up shit’s creek without us.
Stop being a troll.
[/quote]You are the foundation of SCAM. You are nothing. I am the last person you want to challenge in a business development race. :)
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(sigh) Starting to sound like the bitcointalk forums lol
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[quote name=“archminer” post=“2174” timestamp=“1368195092”]
I like the 140% scheme.
[/quote]I also prefer the 140%.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“2169” timestamp=“1368194315”]
It’s my belief that if you keep the port forwarded and your wallet open, you are then another node that can process confirmations on the network.Armondoke - You seem to be bearing a grudge against miners and clearly want to start an argument with me because i mine. You haven’t contributed anything constructive to this thread you are simply dragging it down to petty sqaubbles. As for my example of a job - all crypto currency profitability charts are based on an exchange rate with the master (BTC) currency and i can quite clearly see which one is making me more money now. It may be volatile but if i wanted, i could exchange it all for BTC and in turn GBP which IS stable(ish).
I’m trying to [b]help[/b] the community and [b]HINDER[/b] miners from causing difficulty bounce but it’s people like you that make me think why bother. This will be my last response to any of your posts unless it’s constructive.
UKMark - i admire your loyalty. As for repaying my costs - i currently make around £70/day after leccy costs etc, the kit is a month old and ALL difficulties are rising. I’m still about £6000 short so it’s important to make hay while the sun shines.
I’m not going to sit and defend myself anymore. If you want to turn me into a hater then so be it. If not then lets come up with a solution to make ftc not only an ASIC resistant coin but also a coin hopping resistant coin. Once thats achieved we WILL have a successful coin.
[/quote]
Consider this a virtual handshake then :)
I must admit I did want to go all hell and leather and stock up with several Mobo’s and masses of GPU’s but the initial outlay on such a venture takes balls, not saying I ain’t got any, but £6k would probably get me a swift letter of HER solicitor and probably a kick in the balls too :D
I suppose if I was £6k knee deep then It would change my view slightly though! 8) -
[quote name=“archminer” post=“2174” timestamp=“1368195092”]
2. Don’t allow the difficulty drop to something like 27 after the adjustment which may again unstabilize the market and set the stage for another big swing in difficulty.
[/quote]
Agreed - i just ran a check, at 27 (using the current exchange rate) and the profitability will be around 350%. I’ll mine around 2200 coins per day… Others will pick up on it too, market floods and it all goes to brown stuff.
I feel we need to reset difficulty to ~90 which will put it at around 100% compared to BTC. then implement the 140% or 150% scheme then cross your fingers. There will be a backlash no doubt but in the longer term, we should stabilise.
Also, i never did get any answers to this…
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=305.msg2141#msg2141 date=1368188943]
Can we have a variable re-target block based on hash rate? plucking a figure from the air say 126 blocks per GH/s working on a 150% diff change? or am i talking drivel?
[/quote]Is it possible?
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2181#msg2181 date=1368196068]
You are the foundation of SCAM. You are nothing. I am the last person you want to challenge in a business development race. :)
[/quote]PMSL - wrong site… The trollbox is at btc-e.com. ;D
[size=8pt]Edit: Quoted the wrong poster - Sorry CptAwesome. :-[[/size]
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2181” timestamp=“1368196068”]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2180#msg2180 date=1368195907]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2177#msg2177 date=1368195730]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2175#msg2175 date=1368195350]
Lots of talk about the miners.
Miners need to make money, you will have no miners until then.You need to pump up the currency and all your issues go away.
[/quote]Miners need to start charging fees and providing service. Miners don’t need to make money. Only the paranoid need money. Miners need to start building businesses and communities.
All you wankers want someone else to do the work for you.
[/quote]You have no currency without the miners. We do charge, we charge in coins, coins worth money, if they are worthless, we don’t.
Miner’s dont need to start building shit, we are the foundation of your business. Please try and build it without us. OH RIGHT! that’s the issue you have right now, you are up shit’s creek without us.
Stop being a troll.
[/quote]You are the foundation of SCAM. You are nothing. I am the last person you want to challenge in a business development race. :)
[/quote]I will give you a slow golf clap for your trolling. Please, feel free to continue.
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@Bushstar I think we should use a rubberband retarget. Don’t change the retarget unless difficulty rises too fast or drops too fast. Use the average difficulty jump in the past as a reference point. NOT HASHRATE.
Do not base it on hashrate. You will end up in a feedback loop and with these miners acting like banksters, YOU DO NOT NOT want that.
Keep the 2016. When LTC jumps in the next couple days, they’re not going to go to CNC or BQC. They will come here. Also from the level of trolling:
We are at Ghandi stage 3. They are attacking.We don’t need miners. Miners need us. The fact that they would even play the lifeline argument shows how damn desperate these wankers are.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2190” timestamp=“1368197172”]
@Bushstar I think we should use a rubberband retarget. Don’t change the retarget unless difficulty rises too fast or drops too fast. Use the average difficulty jump in the past as a reference point. NOT HASHRATE.Do not base it on hashrate. You will end up in a feedback loop and with these miners acting like banksters, YOU DO NOT NOT want that.
Keep the 2016. When LTC jumps in the next couple days, they’re not going to go to CNC or BQC. They will come here. Also from the level of trolling:
We are at Ghandi stage 3. They are attacking.[b]We don’t need miners. Miners need us.[/b] The fact that they would even play the lifeline argument shows how damn desperate these wankers are.
[/quote]You are not only delusional, but very very wrong. Good Luck without this Miner. You’re the Frickin Wanker BTW
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2190” timestamp=“1368197172”]
We don’t need miners. Miners need us.
[/quote]What to you bring to the table that we need so bad?
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[quote name=“CptAwesome” post=“2189” timestamp=“1368196745”]
I will give you a slow golf clap for your trolling. Please, feel free to continue.
[/quote]You already jumped the shark. You played your most powerful card already. I was the first to sell goods in LTC back when it was tiny.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2190” timestamp=“1368197172”]
We don’t need miners. Miners need us. The fact that they would even play the lifeline argument shows how damn desperate these wankers are.
[/quote]Seriously? I remember Margaret Thatcher saying a similar thing. ;D
This is getting out of hand now, please try and see both sides of the argument. I am happily mining away for 28 or so FTC a day but my gear is long since paid for and probably worth not far what I paid for it to begin with.
One day they may be worth $$$$££££’s but either way we ALL need to work together! -
[quote name=“modcom” post=“2191” timestamp=“1368197310”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2190#msg2190 date=1368197172]
@Bushstar I think we should use a rubberband retarget. Don’t change the retarget unless difficulty rises too fast or drops too fast. Use the average difficulty jump in the past as a reference point. NOT HASHRATE.Do not base it on hashrate. You will end up in a feedback loop and with these miners acting like banksters, YOU DO NOT NOT want that.
Keep the 2016. When LTC jumps in the next couple days, they’re not going to go to CNC or BQC. They will come here. Also from the level of trolling:
We are at Ghandi stage 3. They are attacking.[b]We don’t need miners. Miners need us.[/b] The fact that they would even play the lifeline argument shows how damn desperate these wankers are.
[/quote]You are not only delusional, but very very wrong. Good Luck without this Miner. You’re the Frickin Wanker BTW
[/quote]I think we’ll have plenty of good luck without the passive aggressive element. Cheers.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2193” timestamp=“1368197411”]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2189#msg2189 date=1368196745]
I will give you a slow golf clap for your trolling. Please, feel free to continue.
[/quote]You already jumped the shark. You played your most powerful card already. I was the first to sell goods in LTC back when it was tiny.
[/quote]What does this mean? You need to make your trolling elicit an emotional response, not confusion.
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“2194” timestamp=“1368197490”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2190#msg2190 date=1368197172]We don’t need miners. Miners need us. The fact that they would even play the lifeline argument shows how damn desperate these wankers are.
[/quote]Seriously? I remember Margaret Thatcher saying a similar thing. ;D
This is getting out of hand now, please try and see both sides of the argument. I am happily mining away for 28 or so FTC a day but my gear is long since paid for and probably worth not far what I paid for it to begin with.
One day they may be worth $$$$££££’s but either way we ALL need to work together!
[/quote]You’ve got it backwards. Look at the way the miners talk. Miners are the banksters, the community members are the workers. If you want to provide a ledger to the masses, go mine BTC. If you want to decouple the people from the madness of Wall Street and Maggie Thatcher, then stick around.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2135” timestamp=“1368186969”]
If we went for a 504 difficulty adjust we need to work out how much the difficulty will be adjusted. We do not want the overall effect to be drastically different, we want to end up with a more fine grained difficulty adjust. I have made a couple of rough tables below comparing the difficulty value when it goes up.Normal difficulty adjust
0…2016 Block count
4 …16 Difficulty going up 400%504 difficulty adjust
0…504…1008…1512…2016 Block Count
4…5.6…7.84…10.96…15.36 Difficulty going up by 140%
4…6…9…13.5…20.25 Difficulty going up by 150%
4…8…16…32…64 Difficulty going up by 200%
4…16…64…256…1024 Difficulty going up by 400%
[/quote]bushstar,i do not agree what you are going to change and i adhere to think what i said above is the best way to solve this thing.
let back to bitcoin,why bitcoin designed to change diff auto?
(PS. I just hear bitcoin since may 15,this year,so may i not very know bitcoin`s principles as well.if i was wrong,please forgive me :-) )
bitcoin is designed to change diff auto [color=red]in order to make the balance of coin making rate.[/color]
as we know , in the same diff, when hash rate increased,the average block find time will less than ten minutes,so the diff will add in order to make less coin make to fit the excepted time every block in ten minutes which will make 50 bitcoins.
it is purpose is to make the coin making rate averaged in a fix value,not too much or two less according the net hash rate.
infact,what feather coin face may also one day happens on the bitcoin.i do not know if it happened before.
i think the Mechanism of change diff auto is good,but not perfect.
what if we can make the coin make value more good?
First,the old auto change diff mechanism do not change,it is good,but not perfect,so we can make a little add-in on it,not to change it.
Second,as what i said,we can change every block value according to the blocks found before.usually,pool will paid miners after 120 confirmation.so we can let the block value change according to the pre-120 block when it is found,that net hashrate compare with diff,if is need to change value.
lets make example.
current block is 10240 ,diff changes every 1024 blocks and now the diff is 100.i have 5M hash rate,and the net hash rate is 20G，and last 1024 block average is 5G.
as calculated,i need average 23hours to find a block and now the net work will find block every 21 second!
then we come to 10241.in this block,the diff changes to 200(may last last 1024 block average hash rate was 2.5G，maybe),if the conditions continues, i need average 1 day 23 hours to find a block and the net work will find block every 42 seconds.
now there is a change,the net hash suddenly decreased to only 5G。what happend?
the net will find a block average in every 2min 51 seconds(although it is closed to 2min 30 sec :) )which is 4 times longer than 20G.the coin made speed is also 4 times lower.
may somebody say: what ever the diff changes,the miner will also gain as usual! i will reply: it is not! look what FTC has now.somebody never think why cause this.
in my plan,after 120 blocks later,in the block 10241+120=10361,feathercoin network noticed that when in block 10241,the net hash rate is huge decrease with diff,which cause long block found time as before,so according to the changes,the value of 10241 is 4 values as usual,like 200 changes to 800 coins per block!
(what i example is not a real value.which value should change need to calculated and simulated Meticulously)
this is also can deal with the hash rate increased so fast.if it increased 4 time fast ,we can also decrease block value form 200 to 50.
what we want to do is not let miners go away or stay,just make the coin made in a fix value.and,it also can protect the miner who stay in the mining.
some one may not agree my plan,so i will ask one question:now the FTC block is 32618,when LTC got to 32618,what time it costs? is it less than 1 months?
i think the answer is definiately not.
the reason is diff auto changes do not deal with the rock increase of net hashrate,so every block is less than ETA time and let FTC block increased quickly and coin made quickly!
in this plan,block coin value decreased half will also not in a fix block ,only in a fixtime which a 1/2 of total coin made.only because each block value is fixed,the block coin value changed fix with block number.i do think this is right.
why bitcoin do not take this? i think when it was design and born,it didnot consider and it also not necessary to consider the net hash rate changes so much in somecondition(such as two many of alt currency)
OK thank you for your time,and here is my point:
[color=red]1 diff auto change is good,WHO do not need to change it or delete it.just make some add-in on it.
2 the coin value usually do not change in normal time.only changes with huge increase or decrease.[/color]what i do is to protect the miner`s gain what ever the net hash rate changes or not,big or small.
when the hash rate and diff [color=black]in good condition,it will not work.each block value will not change.[/color]
when the hash rate and diff in bad condition,i mean the net hashrate changes exceed the diff can control,this will work so to protect the miner`s gain and also of the coin made rate.at last ,thanks for reading.this is my first time to join this community with all my heart and i wish FTC will be better and better.
i am not English motherlanguage people,so forgive my typing~~:-) it cost more than one hour to type and i hope you like it.
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Now now children, there’s no need to squabble. Fighting amongst yourselves doesn’t progress any of us further.
I’ve taken the time to read through the last few replies and would like to say that whilst most of you offer valid points and ideas of how to get the difficulty situation under control they just don’t need to come with your ego attached.
The slander and the likes is exactly what this community DOESN’T need, nor do it show a good image nor set a good example.
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[quote name=“CptAwesome” post=“2197” timestamp=“1368197627”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2193#msg2193 date=1368197411]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2189#msg2189 date=1368196745]
I will give you a slow golf clap for your trolling. Please, feel free to continue.
[/quote]You already jumped the shark. You played your most powerful card already. I was the first to sell goods in LTC back when it was tiny.
[/quote]What does this mean? You need to make your trolling elicit an emotional response, not confusion.
[/quote]You are a puny god. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc
Do not troll someone who doesn’t give a crap about your powers.
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[quote name=“ShadowEW” post=“2202” timestamp=“1368198105”]
Now now children, there’s no need to squabble. Fighting amongst yourselves doesn’t progress any of us further.I’ve taken the time to read through the last few replies and would like to say that whilst most of you offer valid points and ideas of how to get the difficulty situation under control they just don’t need to come with your ego attached.
The slander and the likes is exactly what this community DOESN’T need, nor do it show a good image nor set a good example.
[/quote]Fair point, however, there is a difference between disagreement and outright bullying by someone who expected to be tended to hand and foot and resorts to lifeline arguments and threats when their fantasy power position is challenged.
I have seen the heart and soul Bushy and Justy (your names are too damned long to type) put into this. I am not going to have some wannabe high roller beat down this community.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2203” timestamp=“1368198194”]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2197#msg2197 date=1368197627]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=305.msg2193#msg2193 date=1368197411]
[quote author=CptAwesome link=topic=305.msg2189#msg2189 date=1368196745]
I will give you a slow golf clap for your trolling. Please, feel free to continue.
[/quote]You already jumped the shark. You played your most powerful card already. I was the first to sell goods in LTC back when it was tiny.
[/quote]What does this mean? You need to make your trolling elicit an emotional response, not confusion.
[/quote]You are a puny god. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc
Do not troll someone who doesn’t give a crap about your powers.
[/quote]how clear do I have to make this? YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE ANY MORE. YOU NEED TO THINK BEFORE YOU TROLL.
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Time for a time-out? This squabbling and name calling is not helping anyone, give it a rest please.
