Difficulty Discussion - Fork Update - Bushstar
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.
[/quote]The problem is that primary purpose of the coin are money transactions. Right now featherc is slower than any competition, although originally should be much faster.
If we want featherc accepted and used by merchants and public, ie successful, it must do its main purpose well in the first place. Its not the case right now. Thats why we should act soon, there are other coins out there, waiting for our failure. -
[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.
Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).
I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin :)
[/quote]The difficulty skyrocketed because of continouse new asics, which gives alot of computation power vs electrisity, just look at bitminter, recently a new user came there with 6,5million hash! no wonder the difficulty skyrockets. However so does the average hashrate of each user…
When it comes to scrypt based coins all the people mining bitcoins are now fleeing that market due to low profit vs high power usage, problem is that a large number of those people are not faithfull to a particular coin, but rather keep jumping coin to whatever of them has the biggest earnings.
Feathercoin experienced that with network hashrate peaking above 5Ghash, then when the retarget were set in to motion it wasnt as profitable to mine feathercoin and the miners went on to mine litecoin again since the difficulty there had dropped. hashrate for feathercoin falled to under 1Ghash, but the difficulty stayed the same… since the retarget time was 2016 blocks. the retarget time is WAY to high, making people abandon feathercoin.
If the difficulty problem would not be fixed, the same problem would happen again, making those poor “faithfull” donors that had worked their ass of getting trough those 21 days of retarget time have to go trough it one more time…
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The more I consider this the more I realise that this needs to be done. We have seen other coins go through successful forks so it can be done. If we do not then when the difficulty goes down we’ll be mined to another super high difficulty and end up in this situation again. Freicoin has now come to this conclusion. I do not want to wait many months for a solution and this is still easier to do when we are young.
The problem with IE6 is that people can still use Google and check their emails. Plus you still have some very large legacy systems that do not work with anything other than IE6. I came across a system where people still have to use Netscape Navigator :)
Anyway, let’s not get too divided on this issue as we all need to stand together.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2742” timestamp=“1368359096”]
The more I consider this the more I realise that this needs to be done. We have seen other coins go through successful forks so it can be done. If we do not then when the difficulty goes down we’ll be mined to another super high difficulty and end up in this situation again. Freicoin has now come to this conclusion. I do not want to wait many months for a solution and this is still easier to do when we are young.The problem with IE6 is that people can still use Google and check their emails. Plus you still have some very large legacy systems that do not work with anything other than IE6. I came across a system where people still have to use Netscape Navigator :)
Anyway, let’s not get too divided on this issue as we all need to stand together.
[/quote]Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.
IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.
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Lots if discussion. Any time frames even estimates yet? FTC a out to hit trip 0s.
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So we would all need to install new wallets, but can leave our miners pointed to the same pools, assuming we mine pools? Is there anything else we need to do?
Would we need to move any coins we have out of the wallet, or will the new wallet just use the wallet.dat that is already there?
Some info on this woukd be good in any announcement.
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[quote name=“spynappels” post=“2754” timestamp=“1368361371”]
So we would all need to install new wallets, but can leave our miners pointed to the same pools, assuming we mine pools? Is there anything else we need to do?Would we need to move any coins we have out of the wallet, or will the new wallet just use the wallet.dat that is already there?
Some info on this woukd be good in any announcement.
[/quote]You just need to update your FeatherCoin software, ie, install the new version.
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Ok, thanks for that, that is what I expected, but I think any announcements should include detailed instructions including whether the current wallet will be used by the new software for any new adopters who know as little as me about how software upgrades of the Feathercoin software works.
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[quote name=“Sawyer” post=“2752” timestamp=“1368360724”]
Lots if discussion. Any time frames even estimates yet? FTC a out to hit trip 0s.
[/quote]It’s already been triple 0’s, I bought more :)
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You should move to a pool which is willing to update to the new software though. Give me ftc will do that I’m pretty sure. Some pools are a bit slow on the uptake.
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Is it possible to change the way difficulty adjusts like you proposed without making a fork? You can ride this difficulty out, and if people knew that this kind of massive difficulty changes wont happen again maybe more miners would jump onboard. I can donate 4.5 khash/s but this fork bussiness is making me spectical.
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[quote name=“ftcguy2” post=“2778” timestamp=“1368370687”]
Is it possible to change the way difficulty adjusts like you proposed without making a fork? You can ride this difficulty out, and if people knew that this kind of massive difficulty changes wont happen again maybe more miners would jump onboard. I can donate 4.5 khash/s but this fork bussiness is making me spectical.
[/quote]Picture a fork in the road, one is a dead end to the left, we move over to the right. What you are asking is what is being implemented in the fork.
Don’t fear the word [i]fork[/i], we all just move over to the right.On this note, instead of calling it a fork, can we call it an ‘outgoing transition’ instead? :)
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Forking has not proved to be a major problem in the past. Bitcoin has gone through this sort of thing in the past, more recently Terracoin went through two forks resolving their difficulty adjust. Freicoin is planning its own fork very soon. Without the occasional fork it is not possible to make some upgrades and tweaks like we are planning to do.
To upgrade you would copy the content of the zip file over your existing files. Or delete the FeatherCoin folder and extract the new one.
Your wallet is not located in the same folder as the Feathercoin client. Just to be safe make sure that you have backed up your wallet somewhere.
[b]Backup on Windows[/b]
Go to Start -> Run (or press WinKey+R) and run this:
[quote]explorer %APPDATA%\Feathercoin[/quote]
Feathercoin’s data folder will open. For most users, this is one of the following locations:
[quote]C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName\Application data\Feathercoin (Windows XP)C:\Users\YourUserName\Appdata\Roaming\Feathercoin (Windows Vista and 7)[/quote]
If you have trouble browsing to these folders, note that “AppData” and “Application data” are hidden by default.The file you need to backup is called wallet.dat. I suggest you add it into a passworded zip file before copying it to Dropbox, USB stick or somewhere else. When you back up the file make sure you copy it and do not move it.
To restore your wallet to another computer you run Feathercoin and close it again. Browse to the above directory and copy the backed up wallet.dat over the newly generated one. Then you would run the wallet using the -rescan option to make it recheck all transactions in the block chain.
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I like the idea of being a [i]specital.[/i] ;)
Something to do while people watch, I suppose. lol
Ugh almost 1am, time to set I18 again and crash… I should invest in ear plugs lol
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[quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2796” timestamp=“1368380247”]
where to get the new client?Also…where is the FTC website? I went to Feathercoin.org and it’s the YACoin site…which makes no sense at all!
EDIT:
NM about the site…found it @ Feathercoin.com. Still pretty sh1tty that feathercoin.org is YACoin.com
[/quote]You are on the site ;) Just click [i]About[/i] above ^^ :)
And YACoin obviously need to Scam people into their coin under the name of Feathercoin ::) -
By the way Feathercoin.org has nothing to do with us. Someone bought up all the domains and pointed them to some pretty offensive material to start with.
Anyway there is no need to update yet. When you need to update we will announce it here, on BitcoinTalk and stick information on the stats page.
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[quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2802” timestamp=“1368383706”]
[quote author=UKMark link=topic=363.msg2797#msg2797 date=1368380914]
[quote author=DigitalDoom link=topic=363.msg2796#msg2796 date=1368380247]
where to get the new client?Also…where is the FTC website? I went to Feathercoin.org and it’s the YACoin site…which makes no sense at all!
EDIT:
NM about the site…found it @ Feathercoin.com. Still pretty sh1tty that feathercoin.org is YACoin.com
[/quote]You are on the site ;) Just click [i]About[/i] above ^^ :)
And YACoin obviously need to Scam people into their coin under the name of Feathercoin ::)
[/quote]K, thanks.
I just installed the client on the site, is that the new one…the one we need for the fork?
[/quote]It’s the latest one yes, but the one required for the fork has not been released yet. You will know when it has by checking this forum for its announcement and it will be available from the homepage ([i]About [/i]link above^^) of this site. :cool:
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.
[/quote]#1. People think IE is a part of the computer. They don’t update.
#2. Morons in IT still build for it. So no one feels pressured to update.
#3. IE is a browser for the WHOLE INTERNET. No one wants their browsing experience to change drastically.
#4. IE does not tell you to update nor does Microsoft visit its forums and beg people to update.We behave exactly opposite. Stragglers will download so as to be able to continue sending money. Being lenient will only encourage laziness, which is precisely the problem with IE. Microsoft feels no pressure to support standards because the users show no interest in a better experience for the developer even if it would mean much less cost.
[quote]
My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.
[/quote]Going down over 20 days is not plummeting. It’s constipation.
The reason for the fork is the amount of time necessary for it to adjust. 20 days if 700 MHs is the average, the difficulty changed about 5 days ago. But we only have 350 MHs. That means it’s actually 40 days. And the difficulty will drop again after that for another week.
No. One. Wants. To. Wait. 40. Days. When. They. Can. Make. Profit. Tomorrow. Elsewhere. So. That. 40. Days. Becomes. 80. Days.
To get people to come back you would need the difficulty to change at the latest in the next 5 days. 40 days / 5 days = 8. You would need NEARLY EIGHT TIMES the users to get the difficulty to change. But then the difficulty wouldn’t be 22. It would be more like 88. Which is only a 2x gain over what it is now, and then it would go back up. And this would happen again.
This situation is a pretzel. Pretzels don’t loosen by themselves.
[quote]
Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).
[/quote]And So. Did. The. Price. And then BTC crashed and Bitcoiners came to us. The people who are kicking FTC are former BTCers. They are not NEW PEOPLE.
[quote]
I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin :)
[/quote]You can only cut those days down with math. Raw power isn’t enough.
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This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2827” timestamp=“1368388760”]
This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
[/quote]That would have been legen…waitforit…dary
Just the expression on all the asics owners face=P
