Difficulty Discussion - Fork Update - Bushstar
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[quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2802” timestamp=“1368383706”]
[quote author=UKMark link=topic=363.msg2797#msg2797 date=1368380914]
[quote author=DigitalDoom link=topic=363.msg2796#msg2796 date=1368380247]
where to get the new client?Also…where is the FTC website? I went to Feathercoin.org and it’s the YACoin site…which makes no sense at all!
EDIT:
NM about the site…found it @ Feathercoin.com. Still pretty sh1tty that feathercoin.org is YACoin.com
[/quote]You are on the site ;) Just click [i]About[/i] above ^^ :)
And YACoin obviously need to Scam people into their coin under the name of Feathercoin ::)
[/quote]K, thanks.
I just installed the client on the site, is that the new one…the one we need for the fork?
[/quote]It’s the latest one yes, but the one required for the fork has not been released yet. You will know when it has by checking this forum for its announcement and it will be available from the homepage ([i]About [/i]link above^^) of this site. :cool:
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.
[/quote]#1. People think IE is a part of the computer. They don’t update.
#2. Morons in IT still build for it. So no one feels pressured to update.
#3. IE is a browser for the WHOLE INTERNET. No one wants their browsing experience to change drastically.
#4. IE does not tell you to update nor does Microsoft visit its forums and beg people to update.We behave exactly opposite. Stragglers will download so as to be able to continue sending money. Being lenient will only encourage laziness, which is precisely the problem with IE. Microsoft feels no pressure to support standards because the users show no interest in a better experience for the developer even if it would mean much less cost.
[quote]
My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.
[/quote]Going down over 20 days is not plummeting. It’s constipation.
The reason for the fork is the amount of time necessary for it to adjust. 20 days if 700 MHs is the average, the difficulty changed about 5 days ago. But we only have 350 MHs. That means it’s actually 40 days. And the difficulty will drop again after that for another week.
No. One. Wants. To. Wait. 40. Days. When. They. Can. Make. Profit. Tomorrow. Elsewhere. So. That. 40. Days. Becomes. 80. Days.
To get people to come back you would need the difficulty to change at the latest in the next 5 days. 40 days / 5 days = 8. You would need NEARLY EIGHT TIMES the users to get the difficulty to change. But then the difficulty wouldn’t be 22. It would be more like 88. Which is only a 2x gain over what it is now, and then it would go back up. And this would happen again.
This situation is a pretzel. Pretzels don’t loosen by themselves.
[quote]
Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).
[/quote]And So. Did. The. Price. And then BTC crashed and Bitcoiners came to us. The people who are kicking FTC are former BTCers. They are not NEW PEOPLE.
[quote]
I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin :)
[/quote]You can only cut those days down with math. Raw power isn’t enough.
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This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2827” timestamp=“1368388760”]
This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
[/quote]That would have been legen…waitforit…dary
Just the expression on all the asics owners face=P -
[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2827” timestamp=“1368388760”]
This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
[/quote]Application Specific v Changed Specification
Hmm, might well throw a spanner in the works :o -
[quote name=“archminer” post=“2746” timestamp=“1368359937”]
Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.
IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.
[/quote]Observation : Over at bitcointalk, I haven’t seen a feathercoin post on page one of alternate cryptocurrencies in 2 days. I can’t post there yet, but I read there a lot and was surprised.
There was a lot of negative talk about FTC in the other topics however. So I agree with the above statement 100%. If I were unaware of this forum and were holding FTC … I’d probably think it vanished if I did nothing other scan page one of alternate cryptocurrencies [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0[/url].
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[quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2830” timestamp=“1368389391”]
[quote author=Bushstar link=topic=363.msg2827#msg2827 date=1368388760]
This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
[/quote]We could only hope for such a thing.
Of course, it wouldn’t be long before adjustments were made and ASICs were back in action…just like it’s only a matter of time before they are taught to mine scrypt.
Would be hilarious though to see the panic from those who paid a fortune on multiple ASIC hashing monsters.
[/quote]If it can be done via software that is and doesn’t require a whole new IC :o
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2836” timestamp=“1368389597”]
[quote author=archminer link=topic=363.msg2746#msg2746 date=1368359937]Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.
IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.
[/quote]Observation : Over at bitcointalk, I haven’t seen a feathercoin post on page one of alternate cryptocurrencies in 2 days. I can’t post there yet, but I read there a lot and was surprised.
There was a lot of negative talk about FTC in the other topics however. So I agree with the above statement 100%. If I were unaware of this forum and were holding FTC … I’d probably think it vanished if I did nothing other scan page one of alternate cryptocurrencies [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0[/url].
[/quote]Consider the quality of conversation in the alt currency section, I don’t know if this is a bad thing. Once Bush gets us back on track with the fork, we’ll have plenty to talk about. We have so many projects already wrapping up, we’re about to show them Feathercoin is the trend.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2827” timestamp=“1368388760”]
This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
[/quote]From : [url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist[/url] …
[quote]Difficulty adjustment periods should overlap (prevent potential ‘timejacking’) Note: An ideal adjustment algorithm would ensure there is no easy dispute on “next target” for any block. Eg, [i][b]it should not be possible for MinerX to set his block time 2 hours in the future to achieve a slightly higher difficulty and win any same-block-height race by default[/b][/i]. [/quote]
This [i][b]is[/b][/i] possible currently?
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@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible. It’s a network remember. Most of the network would reject such blocks. I don’t think it would even work on pools. You can’t just set your own difficulty and expect the network to honor it.
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The discussion page was interesting on the bitcoin hardfork wishlist, especially this part …
[url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Hardfork_Wishlist#Proposals_which_reduce_security]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Hardfork_Wishlist#Proposals_which_reduce_security[/url]
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2852” timestamp=“1368392168”]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2857” timestamp=“1368392760”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
[/quote]Highly intelligent crypto geeks, thinking up the impossible possible, so it has to be fixed :)
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2857” timestamp=“1368392760”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
[/quote]My bad. I read it backwards. The idea being that you could fake the timing of a block to make it seem like you worked harder when there is a dispute over blocks that are the same length as others. I still think it’s difficult, but it’s an interesting thing to look at.
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Hi
I do not know all the specs of the coins but using my logic, why not simply take the min between 2016 block or 3 days after the last change. I remembered that the difficulty use to increase ever 2 or 3 days so I think it is a reasonnable delay ?
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@zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.
Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.
My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
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Very well explained, learning everyday ^^ thank you
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The problem with ‘sitting it out’ is the lower the hashrate drops, the longer we have to wait.
Right now, the time to wait is increasing FASTER than the time it will take… which means at this rate we’ll never reach it.
So do we have a plan of attack yet, or is this sill in the planning phase? It seems to me a simple time to retarget plus a limit on the change is the easiest road there, is it not?
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2877” timestamp=“1368395047”]
@zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.
My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
[/quote]The problem is it’s not 20 days. People need to be coming in. They are not. What you have is the false notion of organic economics. I don’t like centralized systems, but there is nothing holy or natural about supply and demand. The demand for fiat via cryptocoins is increasing. Other coins are serving it better. The demand for cryptocoins themselves is crawling.
There is also the consumer confidence factor. Lack of progress loses friends.
20 days is becoming 30, 40. What you are calling for is a starvation diet. Instead of dealing with storm you’re saying to stick it out.
And as I keep saying, this is not NEW PEOPLE. It’s disgruntled bitcoin miners. People don’t want crypto coins. They want FIAT. For whatever bastardized logic, they want the monopoly money. This is causing flash mining and flash exits.
The situation is not caused by supply and demand. It’s caused by proxy trading. The people who mined Feathercoins did not demand FTC, they wanted BTC to USD.
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So are we going to fork? if so when? I think if it’s the way that things are going to go we should take action asap.
