Difficulty Discussion - Fork Update - Bushstar
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2836” timestamp=“1368389597”]
[quote author=archminer link=topic=363.msg2746#msg2746 date=1368359937]Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.
IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.
[/quote]Observation : Over at bitcointalk, I haven’t seen a feathercoin post on page one of alternate cryptocurrencies in 2 days. I can’t post there yet, but I read there a lot and was surprised.
There was a lot of negative talk about FTC in the other topics however. So I agree with the above statement 100%. If I were unaware of this forum and were holding FTC … I’d probably think it vanished if I did nothing other scan page one of alternate cryptocurrencies [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0[/url].
[/quote]Consider the quality of conversation in the alt currency section, I don’t know if this is a bad thing. Once Bush gets us back on track with the fork, we’ll have plenty to talk about. We have so many projects already wrapping up, we’re about to show them Feathercoin is the trend.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2827” timestamp=“1368388760”]
This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
[/quote]From : [url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist[/url] …
[quote]Difficulty adjustment periods should overlap (prevent potential ‘timejacking’) Note: An ideal adjustment algorithm would ensure there is no easy dispute on “next target” for any block. Eg, [i][b]it should not be possible for MinerX to set his block time 2 hours in the future to achieve a slightly higher difficulty and win any same-block-height race by default[/b][/i]. [/quote]
This [i][b]is[/b][/i] possible currently?
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@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible. It’s a network remember. Most of the network would reject such blocks. I don’t think it would even work on pools. You can’t just set your own difficulty and expect the network to honor it.
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The discussion page was interesting on the bitcoin hardfork wishlist, especially this part …
[url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Hardfork_Wishlist#Proposals_which_reduce_security]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Hardfork_Wishlist#Proposals_which_reduce_security[/url]
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2852” timestamp=“1368392168”]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2857” timestamp=“1368392760”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
[/quote]Highly intelligent crypto geeks, thinking up the impossible possible, so it has to be fixed :)
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2857” timestamp=“1368392760”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
[/quote]My bad. I read it backwards. The idea being that you could fake the timing of a block to make it seem like you worked harder when there is a dispute over blocks that are the same length as others. I still think it’s difficult, but it’s an interesting thing to look at.
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Hi
I do not know all the specs of the coins but using my logic, why not simply take the min between 2016 block or 3 days after the last change. I remembered that the difficulty use to increase ever 2 or 3 days so I think it is a reasonnable delay ?
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@zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.
Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.
My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
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Very well explained, learning everyday ^^ thank you
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The problem with ‘sitting it out’ is the lower the hashrate drops, the longer we have to wait.
Right now, the time to wait is increasing FASTER than the time it will take… which means at this rate we’ll never reach it.
So do we have a plan of attack yet, or is this sill in the planning phase? It seems to me a simple time to retarget plus a limit on the change is the easiest road there, is it not?
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[quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2877” timestamp=“1368395047”]
@zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.
My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
[/quote]The problem is it’s not 20 days. People need to be coming in. They are not. What you have is the false notion of organic economics. I don’t like centralized systems, but there is nothing holy or natural about supply and demand. The demand for fiat via cryptocoins is increasing. Other coins are serving it better. The demand for cryptocoins themselves is crawling.
There is also the consumer confidence factor. Lack of progress loses friends.
20 days is becoming 30, 40. What you are calling for is a starvation diet. Instead of dealing with storm you’re saying to stick it out.
And as I keep saying, this is not NEW PEOPLE. It’s disgruntled bitcoin miners. People don’t want crypto coins. They want FIAT. For whatever bastardized logic, they want the monopoly money. This is causing flash mining and flash exits.
The situation is not caused by supply and demand. It’s caused by proxy trading. The people who mined Feathercoins did not demand FTC, they wanted BTC to USD.
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So are we going to fork? if so when? I think if it’s the way that things are going to go we should take action asap.
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[quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2943” timestamp=“1368428110”]
I’ve now pointed all of my hashing power (+/- 2.0Mh/s total…nothing to brag about, but all I have right now) at Feathercoin.Waiting (*im)patiently for hard-fork to be announced.
A couple questions that I’m sure are on everyone’s minds right now (well, on my mind at least ;)):
How much notice will be given before the new client is available for install?
Not trying to rush, but could we maybe get a window/time-frame…like, are we looking at hours/days/weeks from now?
I saw something posted last night about “within the next 48 hours”, but was busy and didn’t get to see if that was in reference to the client release or something else.
Getting excited and hoping to be available the minute it’s ready to go! :)
[/quote]Yeah it would nice to get a timeline because I’m also keen for the fork to happen now.
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The Freicoin fork announcement thread was temporarily stickied to the top of the alt board by the admins on bitcointalk to get more attention.
see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
maybe Bushstar could contact them when the release is available and do the same for the FTC fork info. -
[quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2950” timestamp=“1368428966”]
[quote author=Pathosverdes3 link=topic=363.msg2947#msg2947 date=1368428553]
The Freicoin fork announcement thread was temporarily stickied to the top of the alt board by the admins on bitcointalk to get more attention.
see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
maybe Bushstar could contact them when the release is available and do the same for the FTC fork info.
[/quote]I only hope this forum is the first place it’s announced. This is where I was told to follow Feathercoin so this is the only place I’ve been spending my time the past couple of days…and the only place I plan to be spending my time from now on!
I’ve turned all my miners to Feathercoin net now and I’ve traded every last bit of crypto I have on BTC-e (and more in transit now) for FTC. I may just pop a blood vessel in my eyeball if the fork is announced somewhere else first. :o
[/quote]Agreed haha
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[quote name=“Pathosverdes3” post=“2947” timestamp=“1368428553”]
The Freicoin fork announcement thread was temporarily stickied to the top of the alt board by the admins on bitcointalk to get more attention.
see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
maybe Bushstar could contact them when the release is available and do the same for the FTC fork info.
[/quote]I have contacted Salty the moderator of the alternative cryptocurrency forum and asked for a sticky. When I post the info over there I will request the sticky again.
[quote author=DeadZebra link=topic=363.msg2945#msg2945 date=1368428222]
Yeah it would nice to get a timeline because I’m also keen for the fork to happen now.
[/quote]The code should be ready Wednesday morning if all goes well. Then for safeties sake we should aim for a weeks worth of blocks before we make the change. I do not think the exchanges would be too happy with short notice forks. Then we mine the blocks to get to the new difficulty and get those transactions moving again. Happy days :)
[quote author=DigitalDoom link=topic=363.msg2950#msg2950 date=1368428966]
I only hope this forum is the first place it’s announced. This is where I was told to follow Feathercoin so this is the only place I’ve been spending my time the past couple of days…and the only place I plan to be spending my time from now on!
[/quote]This is the first place it will be announced. I’m spending more and more time reading here. The alternative crypto currency forum over at BitcoinTalk has started to look like the BTC-e chat box.
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[quote]BTC-e chat box[/quote]Wow, I’ve always heard it referred to as the troll box.
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“2861” timestamp=“1368392978”]
[quote author=Tuck Fheman link=topic=363.msg2857#msg2857 date=1368392760]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
@Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
[/quote]Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
[/quote]Highly intelligent crypto geeks, thinking up the impossible possible, so it has to be fixed :)
[/quote]It’s called Timejacking …
[url=http://culubas.blogspot.com/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html]http://culubas.blogspot.com/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html[/url]
[url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses[/url] -
[quote]
This is the first place it will be announced. I’m spending more and more time reading here. The alternative crypto currency forum over at BitcoinTalk has started to look like the BTC-e chat box.
[/quote]It really is looking like the BTC-e chat bot. I really think we should try get some of the more important threads active here with valuable information so that there is no need to refer to BitcoinTalk. I’m going to be contributing to the mining thread and one or two others.
