Marketplace Features Requests
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I know this maybe out of scope for the current release.
But It would be great if there was some kind of smoothing of the price variances of the conversions to fiat.
I think the worry is that if we pin to fiat for example £20 = 200 coins at point of posting the item and the market fluctuates for an hour during the day due to a market pump (or other thing)
so that the conversion is £20 = 50 coins. At this point the item sells and the market goes back to normal.
It would be nice if we took a moving average / smoothed average of the price over the past 12 / 24 / 48 hrs (or another amount?) perhaps to help protect the sellers from market fluctuations and stabilise the cost of items for the buyers. -
[quote name=“kris_davison” post=“34781” timestamp=“1384782478”]
I know this maybe out of scope for the current release.
But It would be great if there was some kind of smoothing of the price variances of the conversions to fiat.
I think the worry is that if we pin to fiat for example £20 = 200 coins at point of posting the item and the market fluctuates for an hour during the day due to a market pump (or other thing)
so that the conversion is £20 = 50 coins. At this point the item sells and the market goes back to normal.
It would be nice if we took a moving average / smoothed average of the price over the past 12 / 24 / 48 hrs (or another amount?) perhaps to help protect the sellers from market fluctuations and stabilise the cost of items for the buyers.
[/quote]I believe that this is essential. Otherwise people will wait to finalise the price when the market hits a brief low. The price is checked once a minute, perhaps we should take the average over the last 15 minutes to factor out brief variations?
I do not think it could be much longer than that without people taking advantage of this when the price simply goes up on the trading exchanges and the market is stuck in the past.
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I’m not sure 15 mins will be enough. I think 60mins or more would be better to flatten out any random spikes in trading as they usually last a few hours.
I suppose we could take the lowest price in the last rolling 60 mins. I know this seems odd but if the price rises sellers get less coins for their products where as its an increase in coins if the price falls.To be fair I guess its not that important about the actual algorithm we use although I think like you said some kind of average / rolling average would be great. Its always going to be a gamble although with a long term view these small peaks and troughs fade into irrelevance.
I’ll do some digging around some potential options if you like what language are you using for the market?
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If you could get some information on the best way to do this that would be great. I’m sure that this is well trodden territory.
I guess question is. What is the safest way to average price while protecting both the buyer and seller in a volatile market?
With the value of Feathercoin going up so rapidly all the items on the market are looking very expensive right now.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“35690” timestamp=“1385127091”]
If you could get some information on the best way to do this that would be great. I’m sure that this is well trodden territory.I guess question is. What is the safest way to average price while protecting both the buyer and seller in a volatile market?
With the value of Feathercoin going up so rapidly all the items on the market are looking very expensive right now.
[/quote]You take the high of the past 24 hours, and add it to the low of the past 24 hours, and divide by 2.
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Ok I’ll look into it I think the solution needs to include a weighted average if its been £0.10 per FTC all day and in the last 5 mins its £1.00 the average maybe should be closer to £0.10 than £1.00 anyway I’ll report back
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[quote name=“kris_davison” post=“35839” timestamp=“1385166166”]
Ok I’ll look into it I think the solution needs to include a weighted average if its been £0.10 per FTC all day and in the last 5 mins its £1.00 the average maybe should be closer to £0.10 than £1.00 anyway I’ll report back
[/quote]That’s not a weighted average, it’s a moving window average.
If you wanted a weighted average, you’d multiply the price by it’s volume. Or to do an exponentially weighted average on a moving window where new trades contribute to the average price more than older trades, the easiest way to do that is add the first two price points together, and divide by 2. Then as each new price point comes in, add it to the old average, and divide by 2. This ensures that old trades ‘decay’ exponentially over time.
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I’ve put quite a few items on the market today at prices that seemed perfectly reasonable until the price doubled again. Lol
Anyway I have been having quite a few issues with the photo upload dialogue box
Sometimes it just will not upload the photo or it seems to upload but then when I submit the auction the photo is missing or quite a few times the entire browser locked and I had to restart.
This was in chrome although it may not be the most recent version as I was at work.
Ended up in ie 9 which worked without the crashes but the menu bar at the top is not displayed correctly just text instead of the nice menu. -
Some progress has been made on this. On the [b]development[/b] system items can be listed in one of six currencies including Feathercoin. All other currency values are updated from the currency that the auction is pinned to.
However the rest of the site needs to reflect this in the front end and bidding needs to be changed to always be in the currency that the auction is pinned to. After that final payment values need to be handled somewhat dynamically.
This feels more like an overhaul at the moment. Apologies for taking so long, it has been hectic and I’ve not been well as of late.
This weekend I am off to the Bitcoin Expo in London and next week I am going to be tied up in real world stuff. My parents are buying us a new kitchen for Christmas, my mum stayed for a week while Ruth and I were in Amsterdam and this is the result. Our squalor is not good enough for them it would seem. So I will be gutting the old kitchen and helping my very handy friend fit the new kitchen. This work may not be done until the week after next.
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I’ve changed my mind on this one (thanks to Kevlar). I’m going to price my market items in FTC and not worry about the fiat price. I know it will be “worth” more next week vs fiat and continue increasing until ultimately it will level off but the “value” of it will be much higher down the road. It’s a win/win situation. The buyer gets a great price now, while the seller receives an increasing store of value. By the time the leveling off happens, fiat may be dead when it comes to shopping online and a merchant set FTC price for products will be established as the “going rate”.
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Good to hear. Feathercoin will always be the default option :)
Here is what the sales page currently looks like on the development system.
The listing in is Euro, in brackets after the current bid the first figure is the currency set by the user and the second figure is the amount in Feathercoin.
[img]http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4038.0;attach=1355;image[/img]
This is the item sale page.
[img]http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4038.0;attach=1358;image[/img]
There is actually a fair bit of work catching all the requests in the system to the current currency fields and sending them to the paired values.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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[b][Villain][/b]So the buy it now and reserve price will be tied to a set fiat price and the price in FTC will fluctuate accordingly. If I want to buy some products on the cheap in FTC I should first announce a dump on Twitter and sell a large stash of FTC driving the price down. This way I win two-fold. I lower all prices of auctions tied to fiat on the market, I buy them all up cheap, then I go buy back my FTC even cheaper after the crash I created has leveled off. It’s a win/win situation (for me). Even better, I re-list all products on the feathercoin market at the new established higher price after I buy back all the cheap ftc on btc-e. win+win+win![/villain]
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Would this “villain” not need to pump FTC first to push up the value vs fiat up first. So they can then but the item for less coins then sell the coins again and essentially have got the item for fewer coins than they should have.
If they did dump first the number of coins would actually increase. Am I correct on this?
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[quote name=“kris_davison” post=“37513” timestamp=“1385734459”]
Would this “villain” not need to pump FTC first to push up the value vs fiat up first. So they can then but the item for less coins then sell the coins again and essentially have got the item for fewer coins than they should have.If they did dump first the number of coins would actually increase. Am I correct on this?
[/quote]Doh. Ok so there’s no worries then, correct? Or is there a viable way to abuse the system?
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“37511” timestamp=“1385734064”]
[b][Villain][/b]So the buy it now and reserve price will be tied to a set fiat price and the price in FTC will fluctuate accordingly. If I want to buy some products on the cheap in FTC I should first announce a dump on Twitter and sell a large stash of FTC driving the price down. This way I win two-fold. I lower all prices of auctions tied to fiat on the market, I buy them all up cheap, then I go buy back my FTC even cheaper after the crash I created has leveled off. It’s a win/win situation (for me). Even better, I re-list all products on the feathercoin market at the new established higher price after I buy back all the cheap ftc on btc-e. win+win+win![/villain]
[/quote]To protect against this the final amount of Feathercoin is going to have to be updated after the auction has finished. The value shown to the buyer will only be valid for a short amount of time. Also the value of a Feathercoin is going to have to be averaged over a short period of time as well to protect against this sort of thing. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this.
It is not fool proof but it provides some protection. This is probably the reason why BitPay invoices are only valid for 15 minutes :)
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I am back on this today. The next step is to map bids to the currency that the item is listed in.
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Can we pin this Thread [Market Enhancements, Feature request, Bug reports]- to the top of markets?
I am trying another affray into market, as a test sale.
https://market.feathercoin.com/item.php?id=349
I had a slight problem of forgetting to press the upload photo’s button, before signing out. Could we make it the images start uploading as you drop them in, but you can delete them later? + the upload image window is set modal?
When I went back in to re-upload the files I got a warning on size, but they seemed to upload - no photos are there.
_They were all under 100kiB
What is the specified action of the image uploader? Does it reject big files or try and upload and fail. Should just say not uploaded too big or automatically compress the files to a small enough size to fit._
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Re: Editing an auction. The submit button is a bit intimidating the first time you edit. I thought I might be duplicating the auction not editing it.
Could the edit submit button say “Submit Edit”?
(or some such)
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This thread is now stickied.
The image uploader is set to 1MB images. I have not looked at this in any great detail but feel that this needs attention on usability. The amount of work required on the market is growing with some very good ideas on this thread and elsewhere. Once pin to fiat is in place I can focus elsewhere. At some point the market needs to be split as voted on by the community. I plan to do that before the new year. I wonder if the market then needs its own support forum?
Sales on the market are actually very low. It seems that people do not want to part with their Feathercoins.
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I think sales should increase after pin to fiat. I have just left buy it now auctions at high prices until this is done as I was having to change prices every day.
The images I was uploading and causing issue were tiny maybe 50 - 100k.
If you would like some help on the market at some point I would be happy to help. Even though my PHP may be a bit rusty.
