Where did my FTCs go?!
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Please look at this transaction:
[url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/tx/7f3e4dd7fff18e7543c02f1943208b97f666f7c755b361e4bc554070562c1e73#i0]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/tx/7f3e4dd7fff18e7543c02f1943208b97f666f7c755b361e4bc554070562c1e73#i0[/url]
I’ve sent 10 FTC to a friend, and this is exactly what I see in my wallet. A round -10.00 transaction with no fee.
However the feathercoin explorer page shows that I transferred 10.28741399 to two destinations. I have no idea what is this other destination and where my .28741399 went ?!?
Balance on my wallet application is bigger than it shows on the explorer (for that .28741399 amount). Can anyone explain that please? -
It went to your change address.
When you spend an input, you must spend the entire thing… anything that doesn’t go to an output is claimed by the miners. So to recover what you didn’t send, the wallet sent the coins to an address that it keeps internally, which may or may not be the address you’re sending from to begin with.
The coins are still in your wallet because you own the key to the address they were sent to. This fact just isn’t obvious, but it is true.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“43197” timestamp=“1386798569”]
It went to your change address.When you spend an input, you must spend the entire thing… anything that doesn’t go to an output is claimed by the miners. So to recover what you didn’t send, the wallet sent the coins to an address that it keeps internally, which may or may not be the address you’re sending from to begin with.
The coins are still in your wallet because you own the key to the address they were sent to. This fact just isn’t obvious, but it is true.
[/quote]Is this change address being created automatically after nog spending the whole? Or is it being sent to another address which is already in your client under ‘‘RECEIVE’’?
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[quote name=“Pryderi” post=“43204” timestamp=“1386799061”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=5855.msg43197#msg43197 date=1386798569]
It went to your change address.When you spend an input, you must spend the entire thing… anything that doesn’t go to an output is claimed by the miners. So to recover what you didn’t send, the wallet sent the coins to an address that it keeps internally, which may or may not be the address you’re sending from to begin with.
The coins are still in your wallet because you own the key to the address they were sent to. This fact just isn’t obvious, but it is true.
[/quote]Is this change address being created automatically after nog spending the whole? Or is it being sent to another address which is already in your client under ‘‘RECEIVE’’?
[/quote]Such a good question!!! +1 for asking it.
The answer is a little strange.
The client keeps a pool of addresses on the ready, on the assumption that generating public keys from private ones is an expensive operation but storing them and having them at the ready is a cheap one. It stores these keys in the wallet.dat file as well, so when you back up your wallet, these are backed up as well.
I believe the behavior is it always uses an item from this pool for change addresses… BUT when you click “add address”, you’re actually pulling from this pool as well. So it’s entirely possible that you’ll get an address which ALREADY HAS COINS IN IT! Strange, huh?
When people first encountered this behavior, they thought they had generated someone else’s private key, because their ‘freshly generated address’ was showing coins already in it in a block explorer. A little forensic analysis demonstrated that they were in fact their coins from a change spend, and the laws of probability still held in our favor.
So while it won’t send change to an address you have in your receive tab, it’s entirely possible that after sending, pressing “add address” will put that change address into your receive tab.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“43205” timestamp=“1386799397”]
[quote author=Pryderi link=topic=5855.msg43204#msg43204 date=1386799061]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=5855.msg43197#msg43197 date=1386798569]
It went to your change address.When you spend an input, you must spend the entire thing… anything that doesn’t go to an output is claimed by the miners. So to recover what you didn’t send, the wallet sent the coins to an address that it keeps internally, which may or may not be the address you’re sending from to begin with.
The coins are still in your wallet because you own the key to the address they were sent to. This fact just isn’t obvious, but it is true.
[/quote]Is this change address being created automatically after nog spending the whole? Or is it being sent to another address which is already in your client under ‘‘RECEIVE’’?
[/quote]Such a good question!!! +1 for asking it.
The answer is a little strange.
The client keeps a pool of addresses on the ready, on the assumption that generating public keys from private ones is an expensive operation but storing them and having them at the ready is a cheap one. It stores these keys in the wallet.dat file as well, so when you back up your wallet, these are backed up as well.
I believe the behavior is it always uses an item from this pool for change addresses… BUT when you click “add address”, you’re actually pulling from this pool as well. So it’s entirely possible that you’ll get an address which ALREADY HAS COINS IN IT! Strange, huh?
When people first encountered this behavior, they thought they had generated someone else’s private key, because their ‘freshly generated address’ was showing coins already in it in a block explorer. A little forensic analysis demonstrated that they were in fact their coins from a change spend, and the laws of probability still held in our favor.
So while it won’t send change to an address you have in your receive tab, it’s entirely possible that after sending, pressing “add address” will put that change address into your receive tab.
[/quote]Aye, that’s actually a clear explanation! So if it’s send to an address in the pool you have to ‘‘add address’’ until you get the address which it was sent to in the pool?
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[quote name=“Pryderi” post=“43206” timestamp=“1386800018”]
Aye, that’s actually a clear explanation! So if it’s send to an address in the pool you have to ‘‘add address’’ until you get the address which it was sent to in the pool?
[/quote]Yeah, basically, and in doing so you’ll exhaust your pool, making it refresh it with new addresses, which will be used in future change spends. I believe the default pool size is 50.
This is why HD Wallets are the way of the future: from a single key, you can derive all future keys, so you only need to back up one thing in order to capture all future change addresses.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“43207” timestamp=“1386800219”]
[quote author=Pryderi link=topic=5855.msg43206#msg43206 date=1386800018]
Aye, that’s actually a clear explanation! So if it’s send to an address in the pool you have to ‘‘add address’’ until you get the address which it was sent to in the pool?
[/quote]Yeah, basically, and in doing so you’ll exhaust your pool, making it refresh it with new addresses, which will be used in future change spends. I believe the default pool size is 50.
This is why HD Wallets are the way of the future: from a single key, you can derive all future keys, so you only need to back up one thing in order to capture all future change addresses.
[/quote]Thanks once again. I’ll try to find out about the HD wallet myself! ;)
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Hi mberend, welcome to Feathercoin,
This is the introduction area of the forum.
Your question should have been directed at Support, where it will be answered quicker and help other members with the same problem. You should review the forum rules, if you are not used to forums or are unsure what to do.
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[quote name=“wrapper0feather” post=“43240” timestamp=“1386808032”]
Hi mberend, welcome to Feathercoin,This is the introduction area of the forum.
Your question should have been directed at Support, where it will be answered quicker and help other members with the same problem. You should review the forum rules, if you are not used to forums or are unsure what to do.
[/quote]
Hey thanks, makes sense. I just thought that it is the rule to post here first (even troubles) :). I am blindly following the rules like a machine :)Anyway thanks Kevlar for explaining it, so are you saying I don’t have to care because my wallet shows the correct funds (or do I need to claim it somehow)?
Also why this exact amount .28xxxx? It seemed like a percentage, but I guess it could be much bigger? What determines it? -
[quote name=“mberend” post=“43346” timestamp=“1386836955”]
[quote author=wrapper0feather link=topic=5855.msg43240#msg43240 date=1386808032]
Hi mberend, welcome to Feathercoin,This is the introduction area of the forum.
Your question should have been directed at Support, where it will be answered quicker and help other members with the same problem. You should review the forum rules, if you are not used to forums or are unsure what to do.
[/quote]
Hey thanks, makes sense. I just thought that it is the rule to post here first (even troubles) :). I am blindly following the rules like a machine :)Anyway thanks Kevlar for explaining it, so are you saying I don’t have to care because my wallet shows the correct funds (or do I need to claim it somehow)?
Also why this exact amount .28xxxx? It seemed like a percentage, but I guess it could be much bigger? What determines it?
[/quote]In a previous transaction you sent 10.28741399 to an address (or it’s the change address). The 10.0 you sent to a friend came from the address with 10.28741399 on it so the spare .28xx was sent to 6rEsnjdtWKXcamML7GzW3kSBDccGwfeWBB ([url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6rEsnjdtWKXcamML7GzW3kSBDccGwfeWBB]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/address/6rEsnjdtWKXcamML7GzW3kSBDccGwfeWBB[/url]).
You higher amounts you expected where sent in previous transaction to change addresses (I assume you mean the 192 and 183ish amounts).
[url=http://explorer.feathercoin.com/tx/da50195bae59df63b138ea0df2a451d22432551968cba50d632df327c0aef0e7#o1]http://explorer.feathercoin.com/tx/da50195bae59df63b138ea0df2a451d22432551968cba50d632df327c0aef0e7#o1[/url]
I hope this helps somehow!
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I am saying that you don’t need to worry. You have the balance listed, all is right in the world.
The exact amount is likely because of the fee you pay to send the transaction, which is one of those hotly debated topics, and due for an overhaul in the code base. Gavin has been talking about it for a while now.
The way to determine the fee that you ended up paying is by subtracting the total of the outputs from the total of the inputs. Whatever didn’t get spent is the fee and went to the miners who mined the block, and was subtracted from your total balance.
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Guys thanks for your help!
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Did you eventually find your coins?
