[DEV] Feathercoin Web Site Development & Artwork
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lets not mention the competition… (when did you see - Pepsi is not Coke?)
[b]Feathercoin is a modern, open, distributed currency.[/b]
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“52662” timestamp=“1389886164”]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=6616.msg52569#msg52569 date=1389841785]
Kevlar has a point when he says that our opening line states what we are in the negative:[center][i]Feathercoin is an Internet currency [b]not[/b] controlled by any central bank or institution[/i][/center]
What do people feel about this instead:
[center][i]Feathercoin is an Internet currency [b]free from[/b] any central bank or institution[/i]
[i]Feathercoin is an Internet currency [b]independent of[/b] any central bank or institution[/i]
[/center]Also what about the word [i]authority[/i] does that belong in there instead of institution?
[/quote]I know I ruffle a lot of feathers when I do this … but I don’t care, come after me.
I like the new wording, however it does not rid Feathercoin from experiencing the obvious inevitable comment, “[i][b]Yeah, but ACP[/b][/i]”.
So, to me throwing the above line around as FTC’s cornerstone is not going to go over well for teh haters (and there are a plenty), which I know is not your target audience, but it will get back to your target audience via teh haters in time and then FTC’s possibly lost the trust of said target audience.
It’s slightly disingenuous IMHO, until ACP is gone.
Ok have at me.
[/quote]Does Bush or any person or small group have the ability to control the network in any way? Does ACP have any more features than the control of depth or the off button?
Centralisation is not absolute, it’s a continuum. It’s also not a moral issue, the actions of individuals is. An environment that has centralised aspects will over time afford bad behaviour on average but does not necessarily do so. Right now all cryptos are “centralised” sociologically speaking, how was the fork in Bitcoin averted in March? The pool operators have one another’s phone numbers.
The point is that the distributed network is our goal at the end of this never ending journey we are all on unlike the Banks whose sole aim to control. But we will never reach our goal if we are not prepared to make the hard choices on the way.
Just my opinion, thought I appreciate the concern. Does anyone have a perspective on this?
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Also, if you want to get meta perspective, ACP is only centralised on a consensus of the past, when someone tries to re-write it.
At the time the transactions happened it was a decentralised consensus.
At no time was ACP a requested feature, it was only ever implemented as the minimum of 2 evils, the other being attacked to the detriment of loyal miners. I sat there in the attack watching my coins get unconfirmed and disappear from the wallet, so perhaps have a different perspective…
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Ok I had a meeting with @Severino this afternoon following the comments from people on this thread, Peter Blachford and @Kevlar most of which are on this [url=https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1orkheq_SxXRPVexglILynO47xY3mqDWDTHIEQ3jQuMM]Google Doc[/url]. Send me your Gmail if you wish to comment.
Points made were:
[list]
[*]The market price should be displayed high up
[*]Other key stats like hashrate and Market cap too?
[*]Tools button should smooth scroll to the bottom with a grid including QR Code generator etc
[*]The 3 boxes below the hero image should be:
[/list]
[list type=decimal]
[*]Why Feathercoin
[*]Where to buy
[*]Where to spend
[/list]
[list]
[*]Do lighter version of the same theme. This is because this theme will need to be distributed across the forum etc it might be that the light text on black is too difficult to read when applied to the forum
[*]AB Testing should be done on 2 or 3 key designs
[/list]So the overal information hierarchy should be:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Basics - Why Feathercoin
[*]Necessities - Buy and Sell
[*]Ancillaries - Tools
[/list]Over to you!
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[quote name=“wrapper0feather” post=“52676” timestamp=“1389888824”]
Also, if you want to get meta perspective, ACP is only centralised on a consensus of the past, when someone tries to re-write it.At the time the transactions happened it was a decentralised consensus.
[/quote]+1!
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I can’t wait. Brilliant work.
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[quote name=“wrapper0feather” post=“52668” timestamp=“1389887444”]
lets not mention the competition… (when did you see - Pepsi is not Coke?)[b]Feathercoin is a modern, open, distributed currency.[/b]
[/quote]I like the word distributed!
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The Digital Ocean cloud hosting is more for apps like p2pool than wordpress.
Normal Web hosting which have cPanel and wordpress installed already would be better for beta testing new web site templates…
Digital Ocean - has server virtual machines you can run, for instance - Listen to Feathercoins? or other blockchain related services.
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[quote name=“chrisj” post=“52671” timestamp=“1389887908”]
Does Bush or any person or small group have the ability to control the network in any way? Does ACP have any more features than the control of depth or the off button?
[/quote]Yes, Bush has absolute control over miner abilities. He can solo mine the chain himself with no competition, allowing only what blocks he mines into it, undoing any longer chain with a single GPU. He can destroy the network, locking all miners out of it, or selectively manipulate it to any lesser degree, allowing himself to mine as many coins as he chooses before allowing miners back on to the network. It’s at his discretion not to do such things, and having adopted the client which listens to ACP, we are powerless to prevent it.
[quote]
Centralisation is not absolute, it’s a continuum. It’s also not a moral issue, the actions of individuals is. An environment that has centralised aspects will over time afford bad behaviour on average but does not necessarily do so. Right now all cryptos are “centralised” sociologically speaking, how was the fork in Bitcoin averted in March? The pool operators have one another’s phone numbers.
[/quote]I agree that there are trade-offs to be made, but the difference here is that people can unempower the pools by moving their hash power away. With ACP, the pools aren’t in control, AND the miners aren’t in control, one person is. On the continuum of centralization, one person acting with impunity is still more dangerous than a group of people beholden to their constituents.
[quote]
The point is that the distributed network is our goal at the end of this never ending journey we are all on unlike the Banks whose sole aim to control. But we will never reach our goal if we are not prepared to make the hard choices on the way.
[/quote]We’ve agreed verbally to this, but we also agree that it’s an uneasy sacrifice, and one best planned away from and apologized for with an explanation as to why it’s an appropriate if not entirely necessary evil, not leaned into with wild abandon and touted as a long-term solution. The danger in not allowing the free market to determine the fate of the blockchain is that the free market no longer determines the fate of the blockchain. It’s an even harder choice to say, “Well, we run the risk of crashing and burning because the technology is immature, but I’d rather try and fail, and then innovate to fix the problem, rather than bury the problem behind a solution that enables me to not innovate, and never address the real problem.”
The problem is that the network isn’t secure from malicious attackers. Exchanges responded to this by increasing the number of confirmations required. This was a VERY GOOD solution that addressed the problem correctly. ACP succeeded in bringing back down the number of confirmations on the exchanges, but it turned FTC blockchain into a centralized ledger dictated by one person. At any time the feds could arrest Bushstar and seize his servers, and we’d be back where we started. The price paid was WAY WAY WAY too high. I’d rather have 100 confirmations than a Liberty Reserve blockchain.
I said over and over and over at the time that the right solution was to fix the protocol to increase network security. And here we are, 6 months later, and all ACP has done is allowed us to NOT innovate. What if we had left it at 100 confirms? Might that have motivated people to fix the problem correctly?
Failure is always an option, and sometimes you learn more from it than from an empty victory.
[quote]
Just my opinion, thought I appreciate the concern. Does anyone have a perspective on this?
[/quote]My retrospective on the past isn’t going to win any favors with anyone. The training wheels were put on, and we need to move boldly forward (boldly move forward? move forward boldly? stupid split infinitive) into a world where they can come off. That means securing the network in a world without central authority. That means innovating in the code, and attracting the miners.
Anything short of that is doomed to failure.
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[quote name=“wrapper0feather” post=“52709” timestamp=“1389894511”]
The Digital Ocean cloud hosting is more for apps like p2pool than wordpress.Normal Web hosting which have cPanel and wordpress installed already would be better for beta testing new web site templates…
Digital Ocean - has server virtual machines you can run, for instance - Listen to Feathercoins? or other blockchain related services.
[/quote]At $5 a month I’d say it’s hard to argue with the price point. Installing Apache and PHP and getting Wordpress up and running on it is pretty trivial, in fact I bet there’s a Chef recipe for it that would make it 1-click. I run [url=http://blockchain-link.com]http://blockchain-link.com[/url] on one, and took about 20 minutes to get it set up. I’ll even volunteer my skills as an admin and get it set up and the steps documented, if that would help.
But hey, if you can find a host with WP pre-installed for $5 a month, go with it, and save me the time and hassle.
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[quote]
ACP has done is allowed us to NOT innovate.
[/quote]Hey Kevlar, you know, we’d have a “none ACP version” of the Feathercoin client up for download within the hour, if there was any sign of a problem. What are you worried about?
It is me that should be annoyed, as I am pretty sure my “Multi temporal difficulty averaging” would have been that non centralised solution. It would have made attacks too expensive automatically, by taking the long, medium and short term hash rate into account.
Lets create the Scrypt-Jane test coin and find out. It was only because I wasn’t good enough at hacking the source code then, and didn’t present the solution in a patchable / testable format …
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[quote name=“wrapper0feather” post=“52725” timestamp=“1389899701”]
[quote]
ACP has done is allowed us to NOT innovate.
[/quote]Hey Kevlar, you know, we’d have a “none ACP version” of the Feathercoin client up for download within the hour, if there was any sign of a problem. What are you worried about?
[/quote]The lag time between when the incident occurs, and when we can get people to download the no-ACP client, and the damage that could be done in that time frame.
[quote author=wrapper0feather link=topic=6616.msg52725#msg52725 date=1389899701]
It is me that should be annoyed, as I am pretty sure my “Multi temporal difficulty averaging” would have been that non centralised solution. It would have made attacks too expensive automatically, by taking the long, medium and short term hash rate into account.
[/quote]Yep. With you 100%.
[quote]
Lets create the Scrypt-Jane test coin and find out. It was only because I wasn’t good enough at hacking the source code then, and didn’t present the solution in a patchable / testable format …
[/quote]We also have the FTC test-net, which I think would be preferable.
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I liked the other ordering better, because you exposed the why before the how. Presenting people with the download button before explaining what it is they’re downloading and why doesn’t seem nearly as newbie friendly. And I don’t think the wall of text next to the video is an improvement when everything else is clear calls to action and neatly organized into easy to digest sections.
And I still like the darker theme better.
I’m not crazy about the menu any more either. Before it was obvious that the menu corresponded to different sections of the page, and I would expect that clicking on a menu item would smooth-scroll me down to that page section. By eliminating the page anchors from the menu, you’ve eliminated rapid navigation.
Don’t think I’m getting down on you, I LOVE this theme. I just think that this most recent iteration wasn’t the improvement it could be.
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My ACP comments moved to this thread … [url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php/topic,6894.msg52754.html#msg52754]http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php/topic,6894.msg52754.html#msg52754[/url]
Edit : Sorry I derailed this thread. =/ I like the designs.
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[quote name=“Severino” post=“52757” timestamp=“1389905306”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=6616.msg52744#msg52744 date=1389903431]
Presenting people with the download button before explaining what it is they’re downloading and why doesn’t seem nearly as newbie friendly.[/quote]
Hm, maybe have it a bit further down? Or at least have it after the blurb or [i]“why FTC, where get FTC, where spend FTC” [/i]section? [/quote]Yes, I think you have it exactly right. The 3 blurbs first, then the downloads.
Did I mention I love this design? It’s SOOO clean looking.
The thing that I love most about it is:
0) Clean design. Easy to parse, easy to understand, one piece of information is on the screen at any given time and no more.- Clear calls to action. It’s unambiguous what you’re expected to do.
- No hidden information. Rather than hiding options behind buttons, ALL the information is already on the screen, and you don’t need to navigate away form the page to consume it.
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Just an idea, as I was thinking I liked the dark template was better, but I thought the light template may appeal to more people. This may be far too much work! However if it is simple to set up two, you could do both, and see which one gets a better view -> download ratio. Google have done this with the shade of blue they use for links where they experimented with hundreds of different shades until they found the one that meant the quickest click through, and in the US elections the campaigns did this for donations where they ran both for a week (showed randomly), saw which one lead to the best results ,and then ran with that one. Feel free to ignore me, as I only know the concept and not the work behind!
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[quote name=“Severino” post=“52766” timestamp=“1389906926”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=6616.msg52759#msg52759 date=1389905470]
2) No hidden information. Rather than hiding options behind buttons, ALL the information is already on the screen, and you don’t need to navigate away form the page to consume it.[/quote]
Yeah apart from the 3 blurbs section, which has “read more” that leads you onto more detail. Maybe we can just put the other blurb text and video under the “Why Feathercoin” page?
[/quote]Yes please! :)
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Does anyone think that the mining rig might be a little confusing for people not familiar with how cryptocurrencies work? It doesn’t say easy to use and friendly to me.
It does, however, look very sexy. Perhaps that is enough haha. Just a thought.
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Can’t say I am game for any of those themes… for various reasons. Apart from the fact some of them look like my windows phone.
Two main reasons.
One… some of them are close to what was originally up… why reinvent it?
Two… are you really up for coding a fully responsive site from scratch? All the css and writing a fresh set of php templates and a bespoke wordpress theme? Testing it with plugins like BBpress? Getting it to play well with whatever chatboard you decide on. Coding the CSS for the custom pages and then the doing the same for the blog. The list is endless.
Unless you are just redesigning the static html front page I think you may not know what kinda of effort this will take.
If you are and do understand, all well and good.
However I don’t have the time for such a project. I wish I did, but I don’t.
I’m not being a drama queen here, I just honestly feel that the bigger picture is not understood here at all.
Finally apologies for my absence. I quit my job on Boxing Day and have been seeking something else since. Real life and all that drama…
Happy New Year all round by the way, my first post here of 2014 ;)
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[quote name=“Entimp” post=“52799” timestamp=“1389918595”]
Can’t say I am game for any of those themes… for various reasons. Apart from the fact some of them look like my windows phone.
[/quote]Yeah, the metro one isn’t very appealing. That’s why we’re all excited about the dark themed one.
[quote]
Two main reasons.One… some of them are close to what was originally up… why reinvent it?
[/quote]Perhaps I don’t remember? Could you link us?
[quote]
Two… are you really up for coding a fully responsive site from scratch? All the css and writing a fresh set of php templates and a bespoke wordpress theme? Testing it with plugins like BBpress? Getting it to play well with whatever chatboard you decide on. Coding the CSS for the custom pages and then the doing the same for the blog. The list is endless.
[/quote]Dude, it’s HTML. Wordpress isn’t required for this, nor is PHP, or any plugins. The chatboard will be on a separate page, if it’s even kept. The CSS, if well designed, can be reused trivially when it comes time to design another page. I’m not sure why this has to be so complicated.
[quote]
Unless you are just redesigning the static html front page I think you may not know what kinda of effort this will take.
[/quote]I don’t understand. It looks like the front page to me. I didn’t see any other pages.
[quote]
If you are and do understand, all well and good.However I don’t have the time for such a project. I wish I did, but I don’t.
I’m not being a drama queen here, I just honestly feel that the bigger picture is not understood here at all.
[/quote]Well I hope that’s not the case. We’re redesigning the web site, which consists of a home page, a forum, and a set of tools. We’re starting with the home page, and deciding on a theme and color scheme. After that I believe we’re going to be making some technological selections regarding the forum, for which PHP and Wordpress is by no means a foregone conclusion, and once that’s done, styling it accordingly. I don’t see why this has to be so difficult. What am I missing?
[quote]
Finally apologies for my absence. I quit my job on Boxing Day and have been seeking something else since. Real life and all that drama…Happy New Year all round by the way, my first post here of 2014 ;)
[/quote]Well don’t be a stranger, and good luck on the job hunt!
