Cloud mining contracts
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What I don’t get is where the money in contracts is. I suppose it’s not unlike real mining contracts, but in this virtual world it seems like those mining would do better just using their own equipment. What’s the profit margin on such enterprises (legitimate ones, that is).
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“55238” timestamp=“1390739676”]
[quote author=StrangeAtoms link=topic=7210.msg55209#msg55209 date=1390738452]
Great idea however I would have waited a while longer until revealing this as many people are still hurt by FTClover…
Best of luck to you in your endeavors though :)
[/quote]+1 rep StrangeAtoms.
My thoughts exactly. Let’s have this issue fixed then allow the dust to settle.
[/quote]Many thanks friend, and I agree completely ;D
[quote author=estrabd link=topic=7210.msg55241#msg55241 date=1390739861]
What I don’t get is where the money in contracts is. I suppose it’s not unlike real mining contracts, but in this virtual world it seems like those mining would do better just using their own equipment. What’s the profit margin on such enterprises (legitimate ones, that is).
[/quote]Contracts are meant for people who either don’t have the money to buy their own equipment, don’t have the knowledge to mine, or don’t have the time. The profit margin greatly depends on the contract, difficulty, and price of the coin.
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[quote name=“estrabd” post=“55241” timestamp=“1390739861”]
What I don’t get is where the money in contracts is. I suppose it’s not unlike real mining contracts, but in this virtual world it seems like those mining would do better just using their own equipment. What’s the profit margin on such enterprises (legitimate ones, that is).
[/quote]Me personally, I’d rather put the money towards building my own rig… Way more fun.
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grab popcons… I’ll wait till the first batch that’s being delivered before jumping in.
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Well, 1st off I must congratulate motherlode1 on starting this new project and I must say I dont completely agree with Calem and StrangeAtom here: Starting a miningcloud when there’s another one being accused of scam actually means you are putting your effort into this and you wouldnt start a *scam* when the alert level is so high… unless of course you are playing reverse psychology here, in which case it totally got me :)
On a personal note, starting a scrypt mining cloud is something I see as really good for the crypto community as a whole, but my question here is: FTClover’s cloud was asking for 0,2 BTC per MH/s per month if I recall correctly and that is indeed a low price in my book. But here, on the other hand, you are asking for around 1,35 BTC per MH/s per month, which in my book actually seems a bit high. Im no expert here, but I’d say that 1,35 BTC actually can buy a mining rig that produces 1 MH/s. Would you like to elaborate on this, motherlode1?
PS: This said, I am interested in your project :)
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I am too ill for this.
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I think its great to see more services launching, there’s always going to be scams out there and the only way to decrease the likelihood of being scammed is by increasing the quantity of honest service providers. I think in the light of recent events the best thing to do is just make sure you are honest, open and most importantly *accountable*.
The price is always going to be higher to rent than building your own rig pro rata, the “rentee” isn’t taking the risk and can walk after x amount of time, whereas with building a rig you are responsible for paying for the parts, running it, electricity, premises, noise etc etc. I haven’t looked at your pricing but just ensure you have covered your costs which seems to be one of FTCLovers problems, its unlikely you will sell out and if your pricing model is based on a high occupancy rate you may find your not earning enough to cover costs.
Ill be watching closely from a business point of view but wish you every success!
Sam -
[quote name=“Thytos” post=“55269” timestamp=“1390749409”]
Well, 1st off I must congratulate motherlode1 on starting this new project and I must say I dont completely agree with Calem and StrangeAtom here: Starting a miningcloud when there’s another one being accused of scam actually means you are putting your effort into this and you wouldnt start a *scam* when the alert level is so high… unless of course you are playing reverse psychology here, in which case it totally got me :)On a personal note, starting a scrypt mining cloud is something I see as really good for the crypto community as a whole, but my question here is: FTClover’s cloud was asking for 0,2 BTC per MH/s per month if I recall correctly and that is indeed a low price in my book. But here, on the other hand, you are asking for around 1,35 BTC per MH/s per month, which in my book actually seems a bit high. Im no expert here, but I’d say that 1,35 BTC actually can buy a mining rig that produces 1 MH/s. Would you like to elaborate on this, motherlode1?
PS: This said, I am interested in your project :)
[/quote]Well simply put the initial launch price is going to be slightly high but once the first month is over, It reverts to a 0.45 a month charge for mining. At about 1.8 Mh/s you make around 0.5961 Ltc a day and 40.21 FTC a day. The people who pay for the first batch get one month free. The reason the prices seem high is because they are realistic. From the monthly 0.45 btc per rig, 0.2 btc per rig will cover electricity and internet. A portion of the leftover will be kept in cold storage and whatever remains it will be put towards acquiring more equipment. Also a certain amount of BTC will always be handed back to Kevlar to keep in storage as insurance. this is in case everything goes to shit and I am not able to pay you back immediately then Kevlar can issue some refunds to the affected parties. At any given time I will only deal with the people interested in getting the contracts and Kevlar. So regardless you will always have someone from this forum monitoring the entire situation. If you have more questions please feel free to ask.
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[quote name=“StrangeAtoms” post=“55209” timestamp=“1390738452”]
Great idea however I would have waited a while longer until revealing this as many people are still hurt by FTClover and haven’t gotten back their investment money which they then would use for this. In the event that this doesn’t succeed you should try reaching out to people you know moderately well in your community. Not only will you and them gain money, but you will help spread crypto currencies popularity.Best of luck to you in your endeavors though :)
[/quote]I was going to wait a bit longer but seeing that the rigs are sitting idle (some of them have temp local contracts), it seemed more fruitful to me to put them in action.
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[quote name=“CloudScrypt” post=“55299” timestamp=“1390757793”]
I think its great to see more services launching, there’s always going to be scams out there and the only way to decrease the likelihood of being scammed is by increasing the quantity of honest service providers. I think in the light of recent events the best thing to do is just make sure you are honest, open and most importantly *accountable*.The price is always going to be higher to rent than building your own rig pro rata, the “rentee” isn’t taking the risk and can walk after x amount of time, whereas with building a rig you are responsible for paying for the parts, running it, electricity, premises, noise etc etc. I haven’t looked at your pricing but just ensure you have covered your costs which seems to be one of FTCLovers problems, its unlikely you will sell out and if your pricing model is based on a high occupancy rate you may find your not earning enough to cover costs.
Ill be watching closely from a business point of view but wish you every success!
Sam
[/quote]That is why the prices are high. The 2.5 btc guarantees me rigs and if for example say something is wrong with my current setup, I have the 2.5 btc to buy more rigs immediately. I am looking at this from every point of view and I have calculated loss and profit margins as accurately as possible. I have the ability to buy as many rigs as possible thanks to a contact at a local store and I want to use that to provide you all a service. With FTClover the scam I think was pre planned and hence the low prices. He just needed the BTC. With me, I am charging a flat rate straight up. And you do not send me btc directly rather through Kevlar who I am in contact with always. In any case here is a picture of one of the rigs. This is a 4 card setup that is being tested.
http://i.imgur.com/GgQDa5w.jpg
The frames are made locally btw.
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[quote name=“motherlode1” post=“55320” timestamp=“1390767076”]
http://i.imgur.com/GgQDa5w.jpg
The frames are made locally btw.
[/quote]Just a thought, its worth verifying your images with a post-it note too with your forum name written on it next to the rigs, thats how it was so easy to discover FTCLovers rigs were not his, a simple google image comparison. The post it note avoids any doubt in my mind.
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[quote name=“CloudScrypt” post=“55322” timestamp=“1390767526”]
[quote author=motherlode1 link=topic=7210.msg55320#msg55320 date=1390767076]http://i.imgur.com/GgQDa5w.jpg
The frames are made locally btw.
[/quote]Just a thought, its worth verifying your images with a post-it note too with your forum name written on it next to the rigs, thats how it was so easy to discover FTCLovers rigs were not his, a simple google image comparison. The post it note avoids any doubt in my mind.
[/quote]I am actually making a video of these rigs. It will have my forum id on it.
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I was really interested in taking out a contract with you. However at the standard price of 0.45 btc per month with the approx takings you have described I can only see a break even from this which leads me to believe I may as well just purchase the FTC or LTC from bitty instead for now …
The 1 month free sounds good but obviously this is just a one off perk.
I will definitely be keeping an eye on how you go, and if you get established and I can see a bit of a margin in it, I will probably take a contract out. -
I’m just gonna copy and paste what I said in the other topic/thread.
[quote]Ahhh… the wussies way out :D XD
Get your hands dirty! Build your own rig!
Once it’s no longer useful, sell it for parts, or sell it whole to a newcomer so they have at least something to play with.
Build, mine, hold. Spend some, gift some and share your knowledge to help the next guy.
The whole point of crypto’s is to actually have control over your wealth. By renting rigs all your doing is re-increasing risk as a factor…
Renting rigs, cloud hashing etc, is self defeating and ruins the control you have. All it does is encourage centralisation.[/quote]
Don’t take this the wrong way guys. But your looking at this all wrong.
This is supposed to be about freeing one’s ability to have control over one’s own money.
It’s loud and clear that ultimately, all your interested in, is converting your “profits” into fiat.
I’m not been skeptical because of the recent scam. I’m just strait out against cloud mining. I could make a whole thread about how it is self defeating. If you want to do this, then so be it. If others think they will get richer by using this service, then fine.
I just think you all need to focus your energy in a place that will add to the betterment of mankind.
Not feeding the fire that has dragged society down to the level of corporate monopolisation that it is today.[me=Calem]steps off of his soap box.[/me]
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right on brother!
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“56235” timestamp=“1391166840”]
Don’t take this the wrong way guys. But your looking at this all wrong.This is supposed to be about freeing one’s ability to have control over one’s own money.
It’s loud and clear that ultimately, all your interested in, is converting your “profits” into fiat.
[/quote]
Correct, based on the dynamics of the relationship of the cloud service or the user, someone is going to [i]have[/i] to be taking advantage of the other without the right mindframe. The cloud service HAS to make more than what it would take to mine themselves otherwise they’d do just that, or just leave the machines unplugged, a small travesty for the work/labor and parts put into it. Where the subscriber is making money is that they’re speculating that the amount they’re receiving from it will appreciate to profitable (more bang for the buck, not necessarily a dollar level) levels later, making it worth more than a simple “take an allotment of your fiat and convert it to the equivalent in crypto”.
If you could’ve looked into the future and paid $400 a month for someone to mine BTC on an equivalent rig for a month for you back in 2011… people would’ve rightfully called you $@#&ing crazy.
There’s no guarantees or sure things in life, but that’s not what any of this is about.
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I’m in no way saying I am “right”, but my opinion at least…
I think there will always be service providers and consumers in any economy - even in an ideal world. Until my landlord, electricity supplier and food shop accept crypto I’m stuck converting profits into pounds sterling. I am however against profiteering off of opportunities and I’m in this to earn a ‘fair wage’ doing something I enjoy.
With profit one can invest: in new technologies, in people, education and in providing employment to others - it drives research and consequently growth (which in turn betters mankind I would hope)
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“56235” timestamp=“1391166840”]
It’s loud and clear that ultimately, all your interested in, is converting your “profits” into fiat.
I’m not been skeptical because of the recent scam. I’m just strait out against cloud mining. I could make a whole thread about how it is self defeating. If you want to do this, then so be it. If others think they will get richer by using this service, then fine.
I just think you all need to focus your energy in a place that will add to the betterment of mankind.
Not feeding the fire that has dragged society down to the level of corporate monopolisation that it is today.[me=Calem]steps off of his soap box.[/me]
[/quote]Here I disagree with you as I think it is the exact opposite. Lets see:
The person who is leasing his hardware - This person will charge more than what they can do on themselves (to be worth it), so the leasers are looking on the fast profit/FIAT.The person who is renting - This person will only loose (not win) on the short term. THe point of renting is [b]believing[/b] in cryptocurrency (FTC in this case), and expecting that in the future that coin will be worth a lot more. Just imagine if you could have rented some hashpower on BTC a year ago :)
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I agree with Calem
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[quote name=“Thytos” post=“56305” timestamp=“1391190757”]
THe point of renting is [b]believing[/b] in cryptocurrency (FTC in this case), and expecting that in the future that coin will be worth a lot more.
[/quote]If one truly believes in a particular crypto, they will take a greater risk with the possibility of greater reward…
By renting, one is hedging on the possibility that there really could be a loss because they are not investing in the hardware themselves. One is not expecting to be in it for the long haul if one is not expecting to be mining years down the track.
A business can and will only operate where there is more profit to be gained. Why is that things are more expensive at a convenience store… It is due to the convenience. Much like how banks have been able to thrive. You submit responsibility and control for convenience at a price and the business makes a profit at the expense of it’s customers.
This is the grand social experiment of the 21st century. If you are unsure that you will one day be able to buy brick and mortar goods in the future, then rent. You can bail when things turn sour.
If you really truly believe in the fundamental ethics of “printing” your own money, buy the printer. Don’t rent it and let someone else walk away with your money.
