Changing the hashing algorithm
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So I had a post prior to my previous… I think I must have accidentally deleted it… I was asking about the difference in BLAKE2b and BLAKE2s
BLAKE2 comes in two flavors:
- BLAKE2b (or just BLAKE2) is optimized for 64-bit platformsâ€"including NEON-enabled ARMsâ€"and produces digests of any size between 1 and 64 bytes
- BLAKE2s is optimized for 8- to 32-bit platforms and produces digests of any size between 1 and 32 bytes
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Wouldn’t changing to an equally memory intensive Algo only make us Asic proof by obscurity?
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I totally agree with you Bushstar I believe this is a great evolution if we want to keep Feathercoin accessible for the many and not for a minority of asic owners. i hope this idea will become reality
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I think the idea is, is that maybe we could say, develop an asic miner for ourselves…
An open source one? Get a minor prototype running and releasing it to the world?
Forgive me here, but I’m thinking the idea was this.
Bitcoin owns the SHA ASIC’s
Litecoin will ultimately own the Scrypt ASIC’s
Feathercoin should be the next in line to be the predominant coin of it’s own new algo.The change would have to be done sooner rather than later because once the Scrypt ASIC’s are out, we may have lost our chance of changing without ruining the coin in some manner shape or form.
It’s just a matter of finding the right change that:
a. can still be mined on gpu’s to the same efficiency.
b. having it so an ASIC miner for it can be produced cheaply and efficiently
c. done so we don’t have to “re-invent the whole tool chain”
d. can successfully make the network changeover of algo’s swift and painless.If this could be coupled in with a planned open-source ASIC miner, then ftc could have a chance of “having it’s cake and also eating it”, the same way btc does and ltc probably will.
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If the plan is to support GPU mining, then we should aim to be masters of it, perhaps the best algo then, is the one which is best suited to the GPU and should be able to take advantage and benefit from future improvements in both GPU mhz improvements and GPU RAM increases.
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The exact technical details of the “upgraded” Scrypt will have to be investigated. We probably have a good idea of where to start, SHA-3 for the hash function and replace Salsa with its newer variant Chacha. Looking at your graph Calem blake is slow but it is based on Chacha and there may some reason for the lag in performance. I have not looked into Blake enough yet to know if Blake can actually be used in place of Salsa or provides a subset function.
I agree with the discussion and will consider the options.
These are the points I see for maintaining ASIC scrypt compliance.
1. The scrypt ASICs are no.2, so it is wrong to assume they will follow the same development path as Bitcoin SHA 256 ASICs, since the chip companies are already competing and there is no pre order (+ Butterfly Labs (eek!)).
2. The scrypt memory component, and improvements in GPUs, will mean GPUs will be usable by “hobbyists” for a longer period than with Bitcoin.
3. There may be no 3rd round of ASICs as Litecoin and Bitcoin and Feathercoin will miss the merchant deployment boat, from the efficiency point of view…
4. Mulipools are already ruling, so hobbyist miners may be old Skool any way.
1. Alpha-T took pre-orders. Their units were around $5k for 5Mh if I remember right, last time I looked they had already hit issues with power requirements being more than in simulation. I think they are going to go through some of the learning curve that BFL and others had to go through beforehand.
2. You could well be correct. The BFL 60GH unit was half the price of Alpha-T 25MH model and offered the performance of 90x 7970 where as Alpha-T offer the performance of 37x 7970 for twice the cost. This shows that the threat from first generation Scrypt ASICs is not as great as first gen SHA-256 ASICs. Scrypt ASICs may one day rule but not straight away.
3. This may well be the case which I do not see as a problem. We want to make this move and not be alone so that the new algo can be a standard for GPU coins going forward. This would certainly make it more viable for future ASICs to exist but more importantly optimised tools like mining software.
4. I do not personally believe that multipools are de-facto. There is a lot of hashing power on dedicated pools for various coins.
Random thought…
5. Would this have any effect on Link and Flux? It’s kinda important these still remain as a part of feathercoin.
Tech that relies on and uses the blockchain can continue in the same way they did before.
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One of the biggest tasks is going to be choosing a name ;) I’m going around talking to people about “new Scrypt”, we need something to refer to it by.
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PostScrypt or TranScrypt
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Or even better, SuperScrypt
*edit* or should that be SuperScrypt
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PostScrypt or TranScrypt
Ha! +1,
Both of those sound kinda appropriate!
Although we could wait till weve settled on the algo mix first and try derive a name from that?
I’m kewl either way :D
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PostScript already exists in the print world, so perhaps Post_Scrypt_ is a little too similar/confusing… maybe not though, it just sounded wrong to me.
The name game is fun though!
Maybe:
NuScrypt
FeatherScrypt (obviously links it to the currency that it evolved from)
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SubScrypt and SuperScrypt
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PostScript already exists in the print world,
That’s kinda why I liked it haha.
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*edit* or should that be SuperScrypt
That’s epic also :D
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FeatherScrypt seems a little like we are taking ownership of it and this should be for everyone. Cryptocoin communities are far to segregated and this may put some off.
As Scrypt with Chacha and SHA-3 seem a possibility there is a miner that is for Yacoin that could be easily ported if not simply work.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=247782.0
It is by mikaelh the same chap who created the HP miner for Primecoin and now works with SunnyKing on Primecoin. mikaelh would be the person to have on board when it comes to an optimised miner.
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Brilliant.
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could we talk with a few other coins and make this a movement away from scrypt rather than us out on our own? maybe PXC as I see ghostlander has commented in this thread already?
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Retaining the word ‘scrypt’ in the name will help maintain familiarity. Asking people to move from Scrypt to
SuperScrypt would seem like a logical progressive step.
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maybe PXC as I see ghostlander has commented in this thread already?
I was actually thinking about that before… maybe pxc changed with us?
SuperScrypt would seem like a logical progressive step.
Makes sense to me. I don’t see much harm in changing the name at a later date if it was decided.
“SuperScrypt” sounds like a fine project name.
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FeatherScrypt seems a little like we are taking ownership of it and this should be for everyone. Cryptocoin communities are far to segregated and this may put some off.
Presumably it’ll wear a GPL license anyways? … in that case I don’t know that it’d matter that much. You make a good point, but for a community that talks about marketing and spreading the word… just being devils advocate Bush-man >:D
That’s kinda why I liked it haha.
haha fair play, it is kinda cool I guess 8)
I’m sure whatever you lot choose it’ll be a perfect fit.
