Changing the hashing algorithm
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This is a great thread and completely nessecary discussion.
I worry that the whole thing could be controlled by a handful of big farms and that somehow the big money players forsaw this all along? Even planned it? If it is not decentralized then I am back to real commodities I can hold in my hand.
With that said I think it needs to be kept in mind that ASIC mining is way more energy efficient. If we fight ASIC we kill the efficiency level of mining, large scale or small, it still requires electricity. I was mining using (2) 7950 GPU’s burning 550 watts at the wall to produce 1.2Mhs, switched to a ASIC for Scrypt miner burning 12 watts and producing the same or greater hashing power with way less space, heat, cost, noise, and setup hassles.
The focus needs to be on decentralization for sure, but effeciency needs to be a high priority or people won’t add miners to the network.
My two cents worth
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Asics generally turn it in to a business only endeavor. That’s pretty much it. with asics you put up lots of money for power sipping super fast 1 purpose devices. with gpu you put up much less money for power hungry versatile devices. if you choose to only use those devices for mining, then at some point they will be more expensive (well, debatably, since once asics are made they start constantly upgrading the devices) but really you are trading up front cost for on going cost. If the development community stays committed to the enterprise the miners will be there. I wouldn’t be concerned about that.
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Asics generally turn it in to a business only endeavor.
Agreed, ASICs suck the fun (and life) out of coins.
Can’t wait for the new algo…perhaps an ideal launch date is the meetup on the 26th? Coupled with a live stream, some pints, and plenty of interested parties in attendance?
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Why don’t we change total supply of coins to 100M with this hard fork?
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Why don’t we change total supply of coins to 100M with this hard fork?
I’m no expert but that could mess with a lot of things couldn’t it?
I don’t see why we would devalue the existing supply by increasing it… then who’s to say it would happen again and again…
I would like to pitch merged mining with other neoscrypt coins.
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I’m no expert but that could mess with a lot of things couldn’t it?
I don’t see why we would devalue the existing supply by increasing it… then who’s to say it would happen again and again…
I would like to pitch merged mining with other neoscrypt coins.
You don’t understand me Calem 336M -> 100M.
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Lizhi has his teeth into partial POS, you’re gonna need those extra 200 mill for the interest :P
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You don’t understand me Calem 336M -> 100M.
Whoops, sorry… im an idiot…
Had a few drinks tonight.
Well, it still doesn’t look good cause it apears as though we can just change things how we see fit and people won’t like that… The changes need to be justified.
And wouldn’t it still mess with the way basically everything gets calculated in terms of diff and reward and everything?
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Asics generally turn it in to a business only endeavor. That’s pretty much it. with asics you put up lots of money for power sipping super fast 1 purpose devices. with gpu you put up much less money for power hungry versatile devices. if you choose to only use those devices for mining, then at some point they will be more expensive (well, debatably, since once asics are made they start constantly upgrading the devices) but really you are trading up front cost for on going cost. If the development community stays committed to the enterprise the miners will be there. I wouldn’t be concerned about that.
Going back to GPU mining this community will explode again. There are far more small GPU miners than big boy asic miners. I am going to have to stop being lazy and finish/fix my farm in prep for this.
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We need to make sure all of the miners and needed software for the algo change is in the hands of miners BEFORE the hard fork. I would hate to see an “unfair” launch or someone on their game attacking FTC on the algo change.
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i 100% agree with the above post, i would like to have the software and a pool to mine on prior to the fork as i can see this being unfair for people outside the ‘loop’
As this is a community coin, please give us all a fair chance.
Will it have to be solo mined or can we use a pool strait away?
Cheers guys
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I think ghostlander said the p2pool software was ready to go.
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I think ghostlander said the p2pool software was ready to go.
It is mostly, though I’ve given it a short run on a fake testnet only. I’ve got distracted severely in the past days, but going to complete the switch code (we need it anyway) and set up the testnet. I don’t promise to make the source code available by this moment, but the binaries of wallet and CPU miner will be ready.
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That’s fantastic news ghostlander! I think everyone would agree that the quality is the highest priority. Don’t be pressured by any false “completion” dates things are done when they are done.
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Why don’t we change total supply of coins to 100M with this hard fork?
mirrax, It can not save prices .Whether the result is the same as 10M or 100M or 330M, Because we block output per minute, the speed is constant.
The most important things for money . How to find money ? This requires marketing. How to marketing ? The rise in price is the best.
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mirrax, It can not save prices .Whether the result is the same as 10M or 100M or 330M, Because we block output per minute, the speed is constant.
The most important things for money . How to find money ? This requires marketing. How to marketing ? The rise in price is the best.
Still 336M seems unreasonably high IMO.
Just my point of view.
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I guess it depends on how big a market you hope for the coin to use, for 336M works out to only around 5.4ftc per person in the UK, or another way to look at it, if you managed to get a 5% penetration in the UK, USA and Australia that still works out only to 16.8ftc per person, or even just a 1% penetration is only 84 per person.
Based on stats from Google UK population 63.23 million, USA population 313.9 million, Australia 22.68 million.
The trick I guess is for the supply of coins to not grow faster than the uptake of it by people, which is where most alt coins are struggling.
I’m sure people smarter than me have worked on the modelling of coin supply, but I do wonder if the model should be a short burst of high issue to meet initial demand, followed by a longer period of slow issue, slowly ramping up as more people adopt usage of the coin.
But I guess this model would turn away a lot of miners or investors worried that as supply ramps up their coins will devalue.
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I think the issue is the slow but constant release of coins via mining the block Chain can be a reliable. If you start to change the way that happens then maybe you get more stability but you are also replicating what the banks do. They increase and decrease supply to make sure the value stays stable. But this is artificial. If demand drops then the price should drop and the market itself should determine the price not some central authority.
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I think the issue is the slow but constant release of coins via mining the block Chain can be a reliable. If you start to change the way that happens then maybe you get more stability but you are also replicating what the banks do. They increase and decrease supply to make sure the value stays stable. But this is artificial. If demand drops then the price should drop and the market itself should determine the price not some central authority.
that’s all. If you want to smooth the price, you will need to create a pool of funds. I have mentioned, we need to establish a stabilization fund.
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that’s all. If you want to smooth the price, you will need to create a pool of funds. I have mentioned, we need to establish a stabilization fund.
I like this idea a lot. you could if we were inclined, have the transaction fee vary based on pool value. If the coins relative value goes down to much the pool pays for the fee and transactions become cheaper. if the price is increasing too much a higher transaction fee is levied and it feeds the pool. The pool would have to be smart though. It would have to allow for adjustments based on overall currency traded as a portion of all coins in the market. in essence if someone hordes coins to drive up the price the transaction fee shouldn’t vary much because of that.
regardless it’s a discussion that deserves its own thread. It might not turn out to be wise to buffer the system in any real capacity (as i just described). currency stabilization is not something you can really force, just encourage.
*edit* and it might be possible to remove the market itself from the system. As long as you can make the direct correlation between volume of transactions and currency on the market to the effective price. If the ratio is lower (fewer transactions) the transaction fees are reduced (and the pool picks up the slack so miners still get paid), it is higher they are increased (and we feed the pool). The pool of course only ever cover up to the total cost of the transaction and only if the payment didnt exceed some percentage of the pools overall funds. The effect should be minimal but short of having the pool buy and sell funds (which i dont think you should ever do) its the best you might hope for, for some sort of auto correcting price.
As for the total coins in the market, this should remain fixed for this currency. For 2 reasons i can think of, you need to build trust in the currency, changing the overall amount of the currency after launch destroys trust. It would really upset some people who thought they could count on a fixed coin size. the relative amount of currency 336m or 100m or whatever doesn’t matter, it just moves decimal points.(dividing everyone’s coins or multiplying them by some number serves no purpose.) The other reason to keep it fixed is because the whole idea of the algorithm governing release of currency is that is fixed. Otherwise the entire system would have to be rethought.
