A Possible Future with DPoS, etc.
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@mrwyrm: and @kevlar , how about we just sit back and let them play with the information and do what they want. its all there. we have nothing left to contribute untill people have constructive questions to ask. We need to see how @lizhi feels because he is probably the only person who might code it, and is the most valued person in the community regardless of which side of the debate one may stand.
Now you have great exposure and see slightly different opinions then yours.
Do not be scared.
Unroll the discussion in polite and constructive manner.
Please do so.
Or crawl back to Slack and do your personal plans?
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Sure but I’ll be waiting if anyone has any questions.
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personal plans?
Personal plans? You mean thrashing out ideas! :)
Everything is still up for debate. Nobody has made a single change yet.
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Well I’m sorry but I’m sick and tired of being constantly misrepresented here.
I said ICO does 4 things, and instead of any sort of thoughtful discussion what I get is literally, “I just don’t like it.”
I understand the problem though.
We keep trying to describe a rocket ship, but we’re going about it the wrong way. That’s obvious from everyone’s constant reaction.
They don’t hear that it is capable of traveling to the moon and back, they just recoil at the idea of having flames shooting out of the nozzle. And who can blame them? They’re used to driving cars. Cars don’t have flames shooting out of the back, and whenever they have seen a car with flames shooting out of it, that was ALWAYS a bad thing, so surely this is a VERY bad thing too. And this whole air tight structure? We like to breath the air out side, thank you very much, but no thanks!
I get it.
I’ll be waiting on Slack too if anyone does want to build rockets.
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By personal plans he means the coin i will be leaving feathercoin for in time to create with kevlar.
I shouldn’t be giving away my secrets anyway. So he is right. It’s for my own best interest to leave now before I reveal to much about the killer coin that’s going to make all coins redundant.
Now it’s time for me to go off and work on my evil plan.
/me cackles evilly
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Kevlar, any pointers on generalizing the cryptocoin format so
1. coins can be libraries
2. wallets can be scriptable themes
would be welcome.
My health is a little better and I am getting back in this thing. I think what happened to us in the before times rattled me a bit.
As for slack, I tried maintaining the #feathercoin channel on freenode, but web is taking over everything, because well installing and configuring stuff is getting worse.
Cue Hitler finds out video…
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An ICO accomplishes 4 things:
#1: it’s a fair way to do the initial distribution.
#2: it establishes a fair market value at the time of launch.
#3: it generates interest
#4: it (potentially) rewards the developers.It’s fine if you don’t want to come and discuss the whole of the solution. Just please understand that all that means is you will not understand it, any more than you will understand how a computer works by watching someone play a video game with it… And in fact your likely to get the wrong impression entirely, like that all a computer is good for is video games.
#1: well as fair as fiat
#2 : you constantly seem to confuse price with value (something I noticed in your dribbling on speaches)
#3: including plenty from SEC and FINCEN soon enough
#4: yes (just as fiat rewards the greedy bankers which is kinda the whole point to having alternatives to fiat).
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I am not a coder nor a miner i am just holding a few FTC, because i like the idea and the community who was behind it and hope still behind it, i continue to buy from time to time some ftc, so what would happen to them if a new Blockchain is being created…
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Except. as I keep pointing out, the market DOES NOT think that. They think these coins are valued in the top 10 of the market cap presently.
Do you understand what that means? That these ICO coins are in the top 10 market cap?
I can make a 100% pre-mined coin a put it in the top 10 with no trouble. It will take a lot of nice looking bull shit, trolls and sellswords of many kinds, broken promises, fake ICO and fake volume on exchanges, but it will be in the top 10 and stay there for a while. What’s the point of this market manipulation?
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I can make a 100% pre-mined coin a put it in the top 10 with no trouble. It will take a lot of nice looking bull shit, trolls and sellswords of many kinds, broken promises, fake ICO and fake volume on exchanges, but it will be in the top 10 and stay there for a while. What’s the point of this market manipulation?
I would love some evidence of this. That would be fantastic. Thanks.
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#1: well as fair as fiat
#2 : you constantly seem to confuse price with value (something I noticed in your dribbling on speaches)
#3: including plenty from SEC and FINCEN soon enough
#4: yes (just as fiat rewards the greedy bankers which is kinda the whole point to having alternatives to fiat).
#1: You’ve not demonstrated anything with this statement. ICOs do not operate like fiat, are not issued like fiat, are not government controlled like fiat, are not accepted as a currency like fiat, are not inflated by the banks like fiat, and generally don’t have anything to do with fiat last I checked.
#2: For the purpose of this discussion, let us assume that value == price * voulme. That is to say if you have 1 million tokens, and those tokens are priced at 1 dollar each, but the volume only supports 10 dollars worth of sales, then your tokens are only valued at 10 dollars, not at 1 million dollars.
#3: Regulators have taken a hands off approach to regulation of DACs, and DACs have built in protection from those who would seek to regulate them. Your appeal to fear did not hold sway with the market in 2013, and it’s not holding any sway with us now.
#4: So glad you agree. I can also assume that this means that you also agree that these types of activities are valued greatly by the market, and developers deserve to be compensated for the time, hard efforts, specialized skills, and reaching vision and creativity, so I’m sure you’ll also agree that a coder getting paid for his work is very much part of a healthy ecosystem of development and innovation and a major driving force in this whole ‘technology sector’ that most of us operate and specialize in.
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#1: You’ve not demonstrated anything with this statement. ICOs do not operate like fiat, are not issued like fiat, are not government controlled like fiat, are not accepted as a currency like fiat, are not inflated by the banks like fiat, and generally don’t have anything to do with fiat last I checked.
it was in reference to the fact that you buy into ICOs hence they can only be as fair as the currency used to buy in. (not thats thats any different to what happens in the general market once fiat is allowed to trade in crypto)
however the underlying response should be taken as very sarcastic cause its the only way to reply to someone talking utter shit, so much so one would not know where to start;
you remind me of some first year engineers i tutor, theres always a few in the class that talk utter shit, rave on and on for ages like they are genius, even get a bit of a following (as they sound like genius to those who have little grounding in the subject)…well until exam time…;)
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#1: You’ve not demonstrated anything with this statement. ICOs do not operate like fiat, are not issued like fiat, are not government controlled like fiat, are not accepted as a currency like fiat, are not inflated by the banks like fiat, and generally don’t have anything to do with fiat last I checked.
#2: For the purpose of this discussion, let us assume that value == price * voulme. That is to say if you have 1 million tokens, and those tokens are priced at 1 dollar each, but the volume only supports 10 dollars worth of sales, then your tokens are only valued at 10 dollars, not at 1 million dollars.
#3: Regulators have taken a hands off approach to regulation of DACs, and DACs have built in protection from those who would seek to regulate them. Your appeal to fear did not hold sway with the market in 2013, and it’s not holding any sway with us now.
#4: So glad you agree. I can also assume that this means that you also agree that these types of activities are valued greatly by the market, and developers deserve to be compensated for the time, hard efforts, specialized skills, and reaching vision and creativity, so I’m sure you’ll also agree that a coder getting paid for his work is very much part of a healthy ecosystem of development and innovation and a major driving force in this whole ‘technology sector’ that most of us operate and specialize in.
now i have a spare minute, not that i should even be debating this semantics shit
#2 please please please learn the difference between price and value before ever replying to me again…[personal attack removed]
#3 you obviously know nothing of FINCEN and SEC current investigations into ICO and IPO from the crypto community. it’ll get hotter and hopefully so, most if not all ICO’s in the crypto community are scams.
#4 work doesn’t directly equal reward. lots of work can be done with very little of value produced (hell the software community is full of vapourware projects), lots of work can be done that doesnt deserve a reward, create something of value and rewards will come.
imo avoid at all costs coins who’s devs motivation is fiat.
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it was in reference to the fact that you buy into ICOs hence they can only be as fair as the currency used to buy in. (not thats thats any different to what happens in the general market once fiat is allowed to trade in crypto)
That makes no sense whatsoever. Currencies are not inherently ‘fair’ or ‘unfair’. Their distribution methods can be unfair, but they’re just representations of value. They don’t hold grudges. They’re just tools of economic lubrication. Using them as such doesn’t in turn make the deal being performed ‘fair’ or ‘unfair’.
Besides, who said anything about using fiat in an ICO?
See, and that’s the problem here. Some of us are here to talk about the value of an ICO, and why it’s a useful tool for accomplishing what we’re trying to accomplish.
While you just want to beat your chest and cry foul to any idea. Why is that Kelsey? What is it that you have against a good discussion of the merits of a solution?
however the underlying response should be taken as very sarcastic cause its the only way to reply to someone talking utter shit, so much so one would not know where to start;
you remind me of some first year engineers i tutor, theres always a few in the class that talk utter shit, rave on and on for ages like they are genius, even get a bit of a following (as they sound like genius to those who have little grounding in the subject)…well until exam time…
Is this just because you really have no idea what we’re talking about, so you have to resort to insulting me? I mean come on, if you want to say I’m ‘talking shit’, maybe you could point out where what I’m saying is factually incorrect [personal attack removed]
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now i have a spare minute, not that i should even be debating this semantics shit
#2 please please please learn the difference between price and value before ever replying to me again…savvy (otherwise i swear to god i lose IQ points just reading your dribble).
#3 you obviously know nothing of FINCEN and SEC current investigations into ICO and IPO from the crypto community. it’ll get hotter and hopefully so, most if not all ICO’s in the crypto community are scams.
#4 work doesn’t directly equal reward. lots of work can be done with very little of value produced (hell the software community is full of vapourware projects), lots of work can be done that doesnt deserve a reward, create something of value and rewards will come.
imo avoid at all costs coins who’s devs motivation is fiat.
#2 As I stated before, price is the cost the market is willing to bear, where as value is the utility that can be derived. I have no idea why you would want to debate such an obvious distinction with me.
#3 You’re continued FUD adds nothing to this conversation, and only serves to prove that you are not here to discuss facts, just spread misinformation. Please, stop. No one accepts you as an authority on this subject when there’s all kinds of authorities available at our finger tips to tell us how wrong you are. A simple google search paints exactly the opposite picture of the landscape: Regulators have continued to take a hands off approach to crypto-currencies. They looked into the ICO’s, found out that they were not issuing shares in a company that they can regulate, chalked it up to crowdfunding, and went on with their collective lives. Meanwhile we have idiots like you who want to tow the fear, uncertainty, and doubt party line. It won’t work: We all know how to google better than you can spout bullshit. I ask you again: Please, stop. No one’s understanding of the situation is being enhanced by your commentary.
#4: Of course work doesn’t directly equal reward. Just because you state the very obvious doesn’t make it profound… That’s exactly what I just described: A method of creating something of value which is then rewarded. Do you not actually read anything I say before replying?
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I would love some evidence of this. That would be fantastic. Thanks.
Evidence of what? How to fake trade volume and make fools out of common folk? How to buy ICO coins from themselves imitating high demand? How to hire forum trolls and bloggers?
If you want examples how to get a nominal market capitalisation down from $10M to $10K in less than a year, here you have one: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/neutrino/
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No Ghostlander, I would love some evidence of the following statement:
I can make a 100% pre-mined coin a put it in the top 10 with no trouble. It will take a lot of nice looking bull shit, trolls and sellswords of many kinds, broken promises, fake ICO and fake volume on exchanges, but it will be in the top 10 and stay there for a while. What’s the point of this market manipulation?
I can answer your question: The point of all that market manipulation is for whales to make money off pump and dump scams.
What relation it has to actual proper ICOs and other very successful crowdfunding campaigns, I have no idea whatsoever. Just because YOU can do it completely wrong doesn’t mean WE can’t do it right. Successful crowdfunding campaigns that are NOT scams outweigh the overhead of a more formal method of funding and market valuation, and successful examples of this that are not pump and dump scams and just there for market manipulation are plentiful.
Would you like to discuss some examples of those, and how to structure an ICO so it isn’t based on nice looking bull shit, trolls and sells words of many kinds, broken promises, fake volume on exchanges, and all the other hallmarks of a scam? Would you like some examples of successful projects that have not fallen victim to these obviously undesirable tactics?
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as a complete utter bullshit keyboard expert you’re not worth replying to; you reply mostly with must be the first thing to enter your head no matter how removed it is from the persons actual point or question.
but yeah you’re the expert, you’re running the show with your snake oil sales pitch.,
but you yourself are one of the bad actors in the crypto community.
i’ve been prevy in the past to some of your backroom dribble in other crypto communities, tis why i rarely ever reply you.
don’t act like a saviour to ftc you’re just using it to your own ends.
yeah you want the ICO and the crowd funding because you’re chasing the fiat.
you’re on and on about this new ftc offshoot…why don’t you off shoot yourself
and make your own damn coin?
funnily enough for the longest time you’ve attacked ftc (look at you tag line ffs), yet now you suddenly want to use it to launch your own coin like wtf
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I’d like to remind everyone that none of the above is even remotely true, let alone helpful or relevant to this discussion.
Please… don’t feed the trolls. They would have you believe the most outrageous of things that just aren’t true.
